Those tests were also done on a player with no Dodger level you say? Perhaps that is why it seems so easy to max hits prior to 10/10? I wonder what the curve would look like on non SIB weapons against someone like Skalman.
My guess is that the results would be very different.
It still appears as if the hit rate reaches 100% when the weapon has been maxed, but Iām wondering if thereās any percentage between 80 - 100 which you reach depending on your H/A as well as the targets dodger level.
The hit rate could possibly reach X% earlier depending on your H/A as well as the targets dodger level. Perhaps the hit rate increases from 80 - 100% at a regular rate if the target has a dodger level at 100.
It would however be slower if the target has a dodger level around level 20 or so. Then your hit rate would increase rather fast in the beginning, and you would reach X% at 2.0 in H/A, and then it would continue from there and reach 100% at 10.0 in H/A.
I hope some of that made sense, sorry, itās a bit late for me.
In trying to find a way to reconcile the three data points (0 HA, 4.7 HA, and 10 HA), i found something that works ok:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/3/8/6/7/hit_rate.gif
It may be that the opponentās Dodger level modifies the curve something like this:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/3/8/6/7/hit_rate2.gif
The problem is, at my HA this equation gives a difference of just 1% in hitrate between a level 0 Dodger and a level 30 Dodger. This function predicts a hit rate of ~0.9 at HA 0.8 and a hit rate of ~0.95 at HA 3. We need some tests by players in the range 0.5-3.0 HA laser pistoleer vs. a level 0 Dodger and a high level Dodger. Volunteers?
Do they? When I have scanned mobs I see different stats. Agility in particular and that would have the same benefit for the mob as it does for us.
I agree with this completely. If the stats on the mobs have no bearing, then why would they exist?
I appreciate everyone approaching these issues with a scientific point of viewā¦ I simply do not have the patience to figure all this mess out :ahh:
Hehe ā¦maybe that could be something to do with no loot being payable in PvP kills? Well nothing from the MA lootpool that isnāt already in the hands of players at least.
They can afford to make it real in PvP, but in hunting mobs it would cost more in lootā¦hence the 100% possibility only in PvP?
t
like what level dodger?
There simple hasnt been any proof of the mobs attributes affecting anything, with exception of stamina. Most people experience no noticable difference in their hit% between different mobs. So unless proven otherwise, I assume the hit% is the same on all mobs.
So why do these attributes exist? Well, at least we know what stamina means. But the other attributes dont realy seem to have a relation to anything. Most of them are filled in on the entropedia mobchart. I have been trying to figure it out but it didnt make any sense at all to me. Mobs with high hitrate and low attributes, mobs with low hitrate and high attributes, slow mobs with high agility etc.
Itās clear now that entirely different rules apply for determining hits in PvP situations, rules that make success more dependent on gear and PvP skills so as to appeal more to the players who donāt have interest in hunting so much as PKing. Iād bet my pet Fido that was what was tweaked in the case Xen mentions.
I explained earlier why that isnāt likely and gave some examples to support it. Now that i have verified the existence of a different effective HA in PvP, it puts to rest (in my opinion) any notion that mobs have Dodging skills because it justifies that line from the info on HA that was the main basis for questioning it. Iāve never noticed different hit rates on different mobs, except in the cases where the hit box is poorly designed (see for example the thread kicking around about how miner bots canāt be hit with shortblade due to this).
The hit rates most likely follow the two equations below (or similar looking ones ā thatās what weāre still working on). Youāll note that only one involves a parameter from the target.
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/3/8/6/7/hit_rate2.gif
Well, ideally 100 so that we can see the most extreme effect, but since thatās not very realistic unless an uber volunteers, as high as possible. Coffee is about 30, so thatās the level to beat.
One thing that has been nagging me is that i know i have successfully dodged grenades multiple times. I guess itās possible that the grenader had < 10/10 on the launcher. Less likely is that the hit ability on those works differently. Iāll need to ask next time it happens to be sure.
I just did the test I suggested with Cersus, but the result isnt realy conclusive. My HA and the skillmod were too small. HA is 4.63 and skillmob was 36, which would result in HA 6.30.
Theoreticly I would have without scopes::
80% + 0.46311% = 85.1%
and with scopes:
80% + 0.63011% = 86.9%
Testresult without was:
431hit/500shots = 86.2%
Testresult with was:
436hit/500shots = 87.2%
Number of shots is too small but you get pretty braindead during the test so you cant keep it up that long :laugh:
Good thing was that I had 40 ped loot so made profit 
Strange that they were both about the same amount higher than predicted. We really need to do a baseline (0 HA) on mobs.
Number of shots is too small but you get pretty braindead during the test so you cant keep it up that long :laugh:
Yeah i understand completely. :silly2:
Good thing was that I had 40 ped loot so made profit
The olā regen thing again, hmm? 
Well, one is ~1.1% off and the other just 0.3% off. But I gotta say a mistake of 2-3 hits is easy made. I have very crappy connection and the damage messages are not sequential shown in chat, so some damage messages are from a couple shots back.
One thing we could say is that if the attachments have no effect, the deviation is pretty big, about 2.1%
The olā regen thing again, hmm?
One of the test cersu gave me 9 ped (pretty odd for a cersu, might be the regen thing) and the other 2 ped (standard loot). After that I killed one on the way to the TP with korss and it had 30
Sure is, and my bad on what i said before: i misread the numbers.
I have very crappy connection and the damage messages are not sequential shown in chat, so some damage messages are from a couple shots back.
In the ring tests i waited for the avatarās hit animation to stop before firing again, but i can understand this would be a problem against the cersumon.
If someone with 0 HA wants to do this test i could FAP.
To make it all a bit easyer, I heard there used to be an OCR program that reads the chat and can record the damage you do. What happened to this program? Or did it never exist? If not, maybe its a idea to create a tool like this. With help of Squee or Dutchy that should be easy to do right?
I can just set my anti RSI software on 2 seconds so the cersu doesnt die, and can let it do runs of 2000 shots or somthing, without any need of interaction.
A friend of mine just did a small test on Tantillions using a Mann MPH with a Hit Ability of 0.315 - 0.33.
Total Shoots: 998
Total Hits: 800
Hit Rate: 80.16%
The hit rate should theoretically have been a bit higher according to the 80 - 91% formula, but the test wasnāt large enough to cover it all. It does however seem that the lowest hit rate could be 80% from this test.
Here are the results from lower amount of shoots fired:
Total Shoots: 869
Total Hits: 700
Hit Rate: 80.55%
Total Shoots: 743
Total Hits: 600
Hit Rate: 80.75%
Total Shoots: 619
Total Hits: 500
Hit Rate: 80.77%
We just did a batch of Hunnir lasers and jzar scopes so if u need highend attachments to test with just gimme a pm as im very interrested in the results also
You got me thereā¦ until proven otherwise yeah.
I have no stats to support it, but I have found some mobs are more difficult to hit than others. I admit it could be the weapon of choiceā¦ like mentioned in the example of the miner bot. I find SEGs very hard to hit as wellā¦ much harder than any other mob.
A question for the group doing the testing: is the shooting with manual aiming or auto-aim (select mob and press hot key)? Also, do you guys think it makes a difference manual aim vs. auto-aim?
Thanks again for the research!! Very good stuff!
Since the results we seem to keep getting appear ambiguous, I thought we might be barking up the wrong tree. While everyone seems to be focusing on HA multipliers, I thought I would do a small experiment to see if skillgains are the actual intended effect of lasers and scopes. Many people have suggested this, but I have seen no actual tests yet.
The setup: Opalo +A101
Target: Foul Young only.
I did not track the hits or misses, did not track the loot, in fact I did not even track the number killed. I went out with 20 PED ammo for each run, approximately 1 hour of hunting. I checked my skills before the hunt and noted them. I recorded my skills after the hunt and recorded them. I did 10 hunts one after the other, alternating between the naked Opalo +A101 and one loaded with a Seizzt 1950RS and two Seizzt 2000L+ for a 15% skill bonus. Each run with the scope and sights added 0.65 PED to my decay bill. My Opalo has been maxed for years, my laser sniper (hit) is 26. I used the chip optimizer tool to determine the PED value of the skills earned for each run. I believe that regardless of level the PED value of skills on identical runs should be equal as the optimizer tool accounts for the varying value of skills at differing levels. I used auto-aim only. Here are the results:
Run #1 (With attachments)
9 PED of skills
Run #2 (Naked)
6 PED of skills
Run #3 (With attachments)
8 PED of skills
Run #4 (Naked)
4 PED of skills
Run #5 (With attachments)
9 PED of skills
Run #6 (Naked)
6 PED of skills
Run #7 (With attachments)
7 PED of skills
Run #8 (Naked)
7 PED of skills
Run #9 (With attachments)
9 PED of skills
Run #10 (Naked)
7 PED of skills.
Naked total = 30 PED of skills
Attach total = 42 PED of skills.
Now, granted, the optimizer tool includes chip prices, so that would have to be subtracted out somehow. 200 PED for a test may not sound huge, but trust me, I killed a rather obscene number of foul youngs. The other problem is the rounding to the highest PED by the optimizer, it is not an accurate enough tool to get exact stats. I do know I spent an additional 3.25 in attachment decay in return for an additional 12 PED towards my skills (should I have purchased chips instead). That sounds like a pretty good deal, and does not count the agility bumps I picked up along the way either.
Perhaps this is why they raised the curve for hunting related skillsā¦ now you need uber scopes and sights to get past 5.0 HA before you retire.
You make the call. One critter only tested, one single setup. I wonder if the results would vary with different guns and different targets. Or if this is simply a statistic anomaly.
PS: selling foul bone buttons 
I wouldnāt describe the results as ambiguous. We have pretty substantial evidence that the skill mod acts as a multiplier for effective HA when hunting with unmaxed weapons.
Your experiment is interesting, but you ought to use Entropia Tools or WikiTools to do the skill calculations. Both of those are better suited for that purpose, and will give more details and PEC precision. How did you record the skills? If you did it with NRF snapshots, i have a script that can parse the full data file (in XML format) and calculate the gain between each hunt in hunting professions specifically.
Rayne: I use autoaim (right click) for my PvP tests to set the aim, and then left click.
I would be interested in that.
It requires a python interpreter and isnāt very user friendly. You still want it? :laugh:
I hoped to get the functionality included in NRF or a similar program, but didnāt get any bites from Squee or see enough community interest to turn it into a finished program on its own.
davidfalkayn on gmail could help you out if you want to send in the NRF file Rival.