a discussion on the worth of peds...

Entropia Universe Economy General Economy Discussion
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hmmm…
for all the length of time that ive been thinking of starting a thread on this, i really havent thought about WHAT to write, exactly, lol… so im afraid it may not be linear.

as the title said, this is a discussion on the worth of peds… those of you who say “erm, 10 ped= 1 usd, smartass” well, thats not what im talking about. this thread is for the NON-monetary worth of peds… for example:

lets say the average hunter blows 100 peds a day in hunting in ammo alone (i know i do this in less than an hour)… he goes into town… spams once that hes selling animal hide at 103% (instead of the hypothetical market price, 105%) and gets two resellers trying to buy from him at the same time…
yet, the difference is only 2 pecs per 100 hide.
lets do it from the other side… a hunter is buying full pixie… he wants it at +9, he turns down an offer at +10… yet this is the same man who is on the 24hour pk streak hof once a week! and yeah,i HAVE seen this precise thing happen, most of you have seen something like it too…
another scenario: a sweat seller… 100 sweat, lets say. he wants to sell it at 3.1… buyers will take it at 3.0… the difference is TEN PECS!!! and yet, neither party will sway either way!!!
that 10 pecs is ONE US CENT.

i could give examples like this forever.. d1 sellers who spend hours to sell it at +.2… oil and lyst resellers…

and yet, these are the people who buy camos, and adj heros, and full nem, and 2600s, sometimes buy skills, ALWAYS buying TONS of ammo , paying for decay on a shitload of things, blah blah blah…
so why does this happen? it never ceases to amaze me.

and im sure that almost everyone reading this post knows that these arent just hypothetical stabs at PE, this stuff actually happens this way. and its rediculous… so, i guess my question is something like WHY??? wy does this sort of stuff happen?and please, i know there are alot of resellers who postr on ef… well, this is the time to insert constructive arguements. id like to hear it from both sides…

and MB… i didnt put this in economy section because it will probably spiral out of that quickly enough… it probably has a better place her. but of course, its up to your discretion. do whats best.

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[QUOTE=Cade]
and MB… i didnt put this in economy section because it will probably spiral out of that quickly enough… it probably has a better place her. but of course, its up to your discretion. do whats best.
[/QUOTE]

It’s going to the economy section, many read that section, just dropping everything in general discussion and let me do the sorting isnt the way it should be, threads should be posted where they belong.

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well there’s the first estate. the church. (the royalty.)

everyone who played pre-gold, has a spare set of shadow, an absurd number of ped, a house, a hangar, a weapons collection, etc, from the days when ped was plentiful and MA didnt expect everyone to withdraw.. they expected them to PLAY with their ped.

then theres the second estate. the merchants, the nouveau-riche bourgeois, basically anyone lucky enough not to been born into serfdom.

thats everyone with a big enough credit card to take the burn, or someone whos made money reselling, or basically anyone who keeps their ped balance above 1k. most of these people paid lots for their gear, and their credit card hurts for it. either that, or they hit a huge MV% hof, and got lots of ped with which to upgrade with.

then theres the third estate. the peasants. basically, 90% of frances population. the farmers, etc.

thats everyone who deposits once every 6months. basically 90% of calypso’s population. this is everyone who has rascal, goblin, pixie. it even includes most vigi and nem holders.. as they struggled to get the armor, but dont have any ped left to hunt. =( the third estate struggles through everything, carefully allocating each hunts pec, hoping that they broke even.

so if you consider that 90% of calypso’s population is struggling on every hunt, counting every pec.. who really wants to cut someone a break?

now how does this relate to pricing? well, thats exactly it. we’re NOT dealing with US cents. =) we’re dealing with 102% or 105%.. if they know oil sells for 105%, they want 105% for it.. =) theres no reason to goto 104% and lose pec.. besides, it was hard to get that pec, its still money. maybe if you say to them ‘look, its 1 US cent,’ theyd give you a break.. but its not 1us cent.. its whatever, 20 extra oil cans. =) this IS a virtual world.

(and of course, when the third estate gets a glimpse of what the second estate lives like, we all know what happens then. ‘do you hear the people sing? singing the songs of angry men, it is the music of a people who will not be slaves again!’ heh.. just a little ‘les miserables’ interlude.)

vive la revolution!

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[Code]MB=wristslap.CADE

speak=OUCH!
apology=SORRY MB!
result=-efd, -rep[/Code]:stuck_out_tongue:

dash… thanks for the prompt, funny, and constructive response… now we just need more of them :smiley:

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IMO most people wont go lower than their advertised price out of a certain level of self-respect, and thus would lose this if they dropped their asking price/raised their buying price.

You are right that one US cent should be nothing to handicap a deal. But then again, why couldnt the other party realize this too? :wink:

This is just my perspective. I could be off, but this is how I think when selling/buying :slight_smile:

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Time is a factor in trading. If you have the time to banter about pec, and trading is what you do, you are more likely to worry about it. If however you have no time, then you will quite happily pay that little extra just to get what you need and be on your way.
Lets not forget that a lot of the time its not the value of the Ped, it just happens to be the currency here.
There are a lot of resellers. I think a lot of the time its the traders who are worrying about the small amounts, a lot of the time, the stuff on sale is sold from trader to trader. I think there is a ton of stuff that just ciculates through the traders.

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ok… im glad to see that although there havent been many posts, ALL of them have been constructive, helpful, and mature… thank you all, and +rep to those who have contunuously, this thread and others, been so constructive.

[QUOTE=The Beast]
There are a lot of resellers. I think a lot of the time its the traders who are worrying about the small amounts, a lot of the time, the stuff on sale is sold from trader to trader. I think there is a ton of stuff that just ciculates through the traders.
[/QUOTE]
hehe… six months ago, when i was actively looking for a pair of uncoloredstreet pants with a certain skin, i recieved an offer from a friend of mine in a trading soc, on a blue argo skin pair… he had bought it at cheap from a reseller who had given up trying to sell it, and was now selling it at the same price because HE had gotten tired of trying to sell it…

three weeks ago, a disciple asks me about a pair of street pants.. someones offering them to him at cheap, and hes wondering if he should buy to wear/resell, whatever… i show up, and withhin a couple minutes of asking in conversation and pms, i discover that my old friends pair was sold to a reseller, who sold to a reseller, who was now trying to sell to my disicple.
oh FFS.

some of you might say ‘oh, funny story’ thats not the point im trying to make.
this obscene pursuit for the half-ped, or for a ped, leads to spamming and lag outside of the necessary detail…
but even more, and this is important, IT REMOVES ITEMS FROM CIRCULATION. if a man is selling something at a higher price than people are willing to pay for it, noone will buy it.. that means theres one less of that item.. less item + more demand = inflation… so, endless pursuit of those few peds from markup remove items from circulation, which causes inflation.

hmmm… im done, for now. input? :wise:

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[QUOTE=Cade]
if a man is selling something at a higher price than people are willing to pay for it, noone will buy it.. that means theres one less of that item.. less item + more demand = inflation… so, endless pursuit of those few peds from markup remove items from circulation, which causes inflation.

[/QUOTE]

However, if this goes on for a while the (previously) inflated price will become the new market “value”. This has been exploited numerous times in market control attempts, many of who were moderatly successful (unless MA intervenes, like whith nexus and GSIs )

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[QUOTE=Hansi]
However, if this goes on for a while the (previously) inflated price will become the new market “value”. This has been exploited numerous times in market control attempts, many of who were moderatly successful (unless MA intervenes, like whith nexus and GSIs )
[/QUOTE]

MA has announced that they will deal with the crafting system in the near future and that has made more ppl pick up the trade n might bring up prices in the end. I see more crafting globals now then before.

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I just hate that chain:) …was sold to reseller, then to another, another… At the end price is ridiculous, and noone buy that item. On the other hand, if it is rare item, and its beeing sold for uberhigh price for long time - people start thinking "hmm, maybe thats right price". Especially that works on n00bs who dont know prices. I think one of biggest problems of PE economy are resellers. Because of them so many good items are out of game, waiting to be sold for stupid prices. Looks like some 80% of auction trades are trades between resellers. They are most evil part of game :mad: Dont get me wrong - Im not mad on some particular person, or dont want to buy something and cant afford it - Im pretty ok with gear:) I just prefer all those mid-level items are used by people who really need them and not collecting dust in trader`s storage.

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Ah the resellers, like in real life they are the mark-up in the side. They are after all the ones who can spend say 9 hours in 3 different TP’s trying to sell stuff. Since most ores and enmatter sell better in bulk the resellers can store-up then sell in bulk…just one of those things you can’t live without.

It takes many people to drop the price on something, but how many are willing?

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You will also have to consider that inflation is happening in the real world. This economy is intimately connected with the U.S. economy. I don’t know exactly what the effects are, but they are there.

The only example I have is of the crash of the argentinian dollar. Their government set it as a 1-1 exchange rate for the U.S. dollar. Inflation became so bad that their entire economy collapsed.

There are also alot of new players that are coming in and want more money for the effort they put into sweating. The want more money for as little work as possible. The want of more money spreads to new players and the price goes up.

I can only postulate that there are the equvilent of e.q. gold farmers here also.

These are things I see.

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agreed, resellers do NOTHING for the game. the usual counter-argument is that resellers make items available more easily, at any given time theres some reseller or another standing around with their thumb up their ass, near the boxes in twin.

but i dont need their help. ill just look around for a gun or piece of armor from SOME OTHER HUNTER, and when i find it, ill buy it, and life goes on. i dont need any 3rd party taking a cut and ‘helping’ me to get more shit into my inventory sooner at a higher price than otherwise. bah. they should make it against the EULA.

as for a pec here and there, this phenomenon is called free enterprise. a pec here and there adds up. i never did care about a couple bux here and there, overpaying for whatever more often than not, but the average 19 yr old kid with 40-50 agility whos almost exclusively a trader (that doesnt deposit) is most certainly gonna pinch pennies. there are many reasons why this nonsense goes down, day after day, tho i think the most important thing to consider is that this will never change.

as long as there are greedy ppl out there, then 103 and 105% is gonna be 2 very different things. and i bet these ppl arent nearly as happy as they could be. spend it all, i say. the point of hte game is to have fun =D

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PEDs are worth nothing now… everyone should just give all their PEDs to me :smiley:

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Definatly, resellers are one of the worst things that could possibly happen to the game (no offence guys, hard truth, isnt it?) so lots of people just become desperate in trying to sell their own goods…

I understand that some people CANT deposit, or maybe dont have enough money to do so, and that is normal, not everyone is born on a gold mine, so i understand them, but the thing what i dont understand is people who got money, and than they stand in PA or twin yelling all day long SELLING: BLAHBALH BLAH / BUYING: BLAH BLAH BLAH, and that way day by day.. so that after a month they profit how much? 100 ped? THAT IS 10$!! You can hardly make through a day without spending less than 10$!! And i dont think excuse “Im poor IRL” should work, those people should get a RL job, i bet even streeetcleaning can give you at least 300$ payment a week…BUT NOOOOOOOOO, instead they sit all day long in front of their pc-s leeching out money from others so they can buy what with it? Icecream?

THIS IS A VIRTUAL WORLD, some people have lives inside this game,and they contribute to this world day by day by depositing money,because that is the way it is meant to be,IT IS DESINGED TO BE INVESTED INTO, NOT DRAINED.
I cant belive when people say “look at that crazy guy Deathifier, he bought treasure island for 265000 peds!!!” Well, they are wrong by me.

THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT KEEP THIS GAME ALIVE!!! If everyone would just trade and withdraw, MindArks budget would be gone in seconds, PE would be destroyed and many friendships would be ruined, many joys taken away! What is worst of all, hunters are considered idiots all the time! resellers just saying “HAHAHA, what a dumb**s, look at this, he sold me a GSI for 90 PED and it is worth 91 ped now!! HAHAHA, ill profit on him” WHATS THE POINT? The Hunters are not dumb,same thing for miners and crafters!

If you ask me the most cool thing ever happened to me with selling, was when i was a noob, just trying to make some profit and than a guy came and said that he was buying hides higher than everyone else, i went to him, sold ll of mine, and he ran off to the tailoring machine and made me a shirt, and made me a shirt, and he said i can get it on lowered price.. THAT IS TRADING,HE MADE SOMETHING,HE MADE A DIFFERENCE,EVEN FOR A NOOB.
Not some guy buying tons of hides and hasnt seen a tailoring machine in a liftime :mad:

Hope that someone actually reads this and decides to try something else exept reselling and help all other people enjoy the game.

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So, we get shut of the traders? I used to do a lot of trading when i first started in PE. It did’nt actually make me that much money at first, so what did I do? I deposited again.

I put in 5000peds there abouts and bought bigger items…then sold em. I also had a lot of players, who would never even think of standig in a town to sell, so I did it for them and split the proffit.

Granted, there are a lot of traders who have never placed a penny in the game, but there are plenty who do. Trading for some people is not essential, but enjoyable.

There are a lot of players, who we all enjoy spending time with and have struck up some good friendships that have to trade to be able to play.
I would hate to think that the only people who I could meet were players who were all fortunate enough to be able to invest.

What makes this game great, is that everyone has a shot. With the inclusion of sweating, and in the earler days just the oil rig, it means that people can come in, and hopefully stay in.

Trading is here to stay, make no mistake about that. The trick is to use the traders to your own advantage. A good trader will get you the best price available for your item/s and allow you to continue with your own chosen proffession.

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… as well a good reseller will find a best way to “rip you off” and get 10 month in real life with no contribution to the game…

But without smoe resellers PE wouldnt be a fun place.. i remember someone selling Abrers in twin for like +20 ped or so (dont rmember exactly) but it was really fun to watch, and as well its fun when you go to Treasure Island TP and see Moonear in frenzy PK-ing all the resellers trying to reach Aziphiraels shop to fetch some low priced items… Guess that is the fun part of it :laugh:

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Phoenix I would just like to raise a point in response to you telling people to get jobs.

Do you know that there are countries with very weak currencies?

Do you know that there are people in these countries that earn less than $100 a week, doing fairly senior jobs? So before you start telling people to get jobs, just take some time to think about that.

I lived in South Africa, where the currency is R6.50 to $1. Earning R3000.00 a month doing IT support…
Lets work that out in Dollars shall we… Thats $461.53 a month.
Now of that I had to pay R1000 for my board and lodging (at my parents house) = $153.85. Petrol to work for the month was $100, (sharing a lift with a friend). Saving $100 a month, I was left with basically $100 for myself, to spend on PE, fixing up my motorcycle, and other personal expenses.

And I was one of the lucky ones. I didn’t have a family to support or anything else like that, so I could afford to pay a few Rands a month to buy peds.

To put this another way… if I was still working/living in South Africa, an ML35 would cost me half a month’s salary… !!!

South Africa is still pretty good, there are other countries - Western Europe, other African and South American countries where the currencies are even worse.

Just thought I would share that, to open your eyes a bit.

As for the Traders… yeah see my other posts… they’re just buying and selling too eachother and trying to push the prices ever higher to make more of a profit. Greed… GIMME GIMME GIMME … TAKE TAKE TAKE…they’re killing this game for us people who just wanna KILL KILL KILL or DRILL DRILL DRILL !!!

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I am banking on a market collapse. People will not continue to keep paying ridiculously high prices. All it takes is patiences…disaseembles and reassembles his pistol nervously.

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I agree… but I hope not.

I think that if we look at this as being similar to the real world, then the state PE is in at the moment is very similar to the dot com bomb of 1998/1999.

People were paying ridiculous prices to get a web presence, but when people began to realize the truth, and that all the stuff going on was just hype and rumours… and that the market was on a big hot air bubble, people stopped paying such high prices, and the businesses who had been charging so much, and paying their employees so much took a big hit… and everything fell down.

Yes, I think this is very similar to whats going on, and as people realize that by paying ridiculous prices for items, they’re pushing them up more, they’re possibly going to stop paying so much.

I think PE is a wonderful model of the real world, where MA can experiment and reproduce aspects of the irl economy and learn how to manipulate it…

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