The Problem With Ubers - Where is the Trickle Down?

Entropia Universe Economy General Economy Discussion
1

With the new mining uber hof there is some more discussion around the topic of whether the number and amount of ubers benefits the game. I am going to argue that it is not beneficial.

I want to compare a uber hof to winning the lottery in real life. Essentially they are the same. If you win the lottery or get a uber you have basically three decisions of what to do with the money. With a lottery win you can, deposit/invest the money, buy things, or do a combination.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/5/4/5/lottery.JPG

If you get an uber you can withdraw the money, buy ingame items, or do a combination.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/5/4/5/uber.JPG

The difference between the two is that with a lottery win there is a trickle down benefit to society at large. I know that lottery winnings amount to a tiny percentage of the economy but other people can benefit when one person wins the lottery.

Think of who benefits when a lottery winner decides to spend their new found weath. How many people benefit from the new car that is bought, the new house, the trips to vacation spots, luxury items, etc.

Think of who benefit when a player decides to spend their uber loot. The guy that is selling their shadow armor, the girl with the mod fap, and maybe someone with a brig coat to sell.

I think that when we hear about a lottery winner we know subconsciously that they will spend that money and that others will benefit. I also think that when we hear about someone getting a uber we think that they have benefited but not necessarily anyone else.

And I think this leads to a primary flaw in the PE economic system. That is there is no trickle down benefit of uber loots. It is possible to exist in the PE universe and never give another player 1 pec. You can loot your guns and armor and buy your ammo from a TT.

If however high end armor was crafted then we would see many players benefit when someone decides to spend their uber loot. The person that crafts that armor, the miner that gets the ores, the resellers, the hunters that loot the bones used in crafting, etc.

The same would hold true if there was a true crafting system for weapons and other items.

Imagine if food was crafted. Lets say that stamina was introduced to PE and it affected things like running speed and health regeneration. Low level food would provide slow health regeneration while high level food would provide very fast health regeneration. Now lets say that someone gets a uber and decides to spend that money. They might be willing to buy the more expensive food because they can now afford it. That uber loot will benefit the food crafter, the hunter, the harvester, etc.

The point to all this is that PE doesn’t have a complete top to bottom economic system where we can see the flow of money from the top down. If such a system existed in PE I think that uber loots would be more accepted because more players would benefit from the trickle down affects of those loots.

9 Likes
2

Marvellous diagrams there. I have been meaning to pen something along these lines but not got round to it and i doubt i shall bother now. The problem as i see it is a lack of breadth of economic pursuits and in particular too high a barrier into crafting. Your suggestion about food hits it square, creating an economy from the ground up, ideally with cheap/free food crafting skills transferable to general crafting.

3

Great charts, and good observation. If they fixed the trickle down in the economy, it might help make these uber loots worth a little more to everyone not just the one who gets it and maybe a lucky few friends or sellers.

4

Nice interesting post.. was going to give +Rep for it, but seems I need to spread rep around first :wink:

5

I like it in theory, but it has a few flaws. On the lottery side, if you deposit your money into the bank, your money doesn’t stop there:

That money is then lent out in student loans, car loans, mortgages, lines of credit, etc.

The interest on that money is collected, pays for the bank, the bank employees, the little mexican guy who comes in at night and vacuums the floors, and more…

The bank employees (and the mexican guy) then go out and spend their earned pay on food, housing, hookers, drugs and lottery tickets, and the cycle continues.

As for the Uber, assuming the money isn’t withdrawn, some of that money will make it’s way back into the loot pool. If it gets spent buying some obscenely expensive item from someone else, yes that one person benefits, but now that person has the money in hand and may yet spend it again on other things, from other people. At each stage, the money spreads out and will, yes, trickle down even to the noobs selling sweat and buying pixie.

Generalizations are easy to make but rarely accurate.

1 Like
6

Uber loots are an interesting topic, indeed. My gut feeling is that after a certain amount, then the bigger the loot the greater percentage of it goes out of our economy. But that the fame such loots receive increases interest in the game from more people and that those new players will deposit at least as much. And probably more. I’d say right now its more as HoF keeps getting bigger. So, by my view, as long as the population grows so will the HoFs.

7

Kaeya, while you have a point regards real world economies, it doesn’t quite follow to such a closed system as PE. Uber items are purchased from other uber players who have the uber gun they bought off you a few months back… money spreads out within tiers rather than cycling through the whole population. There simply isnt the equivlent of hiring a cleaner. PE could do with more low level/simple/mundane professions that the higher players depend on. MA even recognise this with the sweat cap, that does go some way to push money back down to the bottom. (sweating is comparable to minimum wage factory work :tongue2: )

8

[QUOTE=Kaeya]
I like it in theory, but it has a few flaws. On the lottery side, if you deposit your money into the bank, your money doesn’t stop there:

That money is then lent out in student loans, car loans, mortgages, lines of credit, etc.

The interest on that money is collected, pays for the bank, the bank employees, the little mexican guy who comes in at night and vacuums the floors, and more…

The bank employees (and the mexican guy) then go out and spend their earned pay on food, housing, hookers, drugs and lottery tickets, and the cycle continues.

As for the Uber, assuming the money isn’t withdrawn, some of that money will make it’s way back into the loot pool. If it gets spent buying some obscenely expensive item from someone else, yes that one person benefits, but now that person has the money in hand and may yet spend it again on other things, from other people. At each stage, the money spreads out and will, yes, trickle down even to the noobs selling sweat and buying pixie.

Generalizations are easy to make but rarely accurate.
[/QUOTE]

Couldnt have said it better myself
+rep