PVP structure and balance

Having been able to participate in the 2 recent landgrabs over the weekend, I wanted to share some thoughts on balancing and structure.

The first LG I sat on the sidelines in the fort and watched the 3 players from AO that showed up get shutdown for an hour. Which was to be expected with no turnout. Obviously they had no intention of winning just taking the opportunity to do some PVP for fun it seems.

The second LG at redsands I joined in to get a feel for what is was like trying to fight HC, there was a significant turnout in players for this one and it was pretty fun.

The first and most glaringly obvious problem that I had (aside from only 3 players showing up to the first one) came down to identifying enemies and friendlies.
These fights are chaotic, with avatars running around at 90 MPH with speed buffs. Keeping track of who’s who is not easy and I found myself hesitating too long before shooting due to needing to read names / soc tags. Everyone on my radar was either green or yellow also, which may have been a bug? When I was sitting in the fort spectating the first one, everyone was red on the radar, but I was in the non pvp safe zone next to the marker the whole time, and not in a team. So not sure how that is actually intended to work.
I was fighting Artanis up on the roof at one point, and ate a rocket from Narnia that Image shot because he thought I was an enemy. IMO he probably threw the whole land grab at that point :P.
The point being that there needs to be better UI indicators for players on your team or at the very least players that are currently in control of the LG marker. If I’m needing to put my crosshair on someone moving 90 MPH across my screen, I need to be able to shoot them without second guessing. Marking targets was happening, but IMO it shouldn’t be necessary to just identify enemies. It should be used to mark priority targets. Maybe I’m dumb and missing something obvious here regarding identifying targets, but idk.

The schedule for these events needs work, maybe prioritize weekends? I have to work as i’m sure most players do, I also understand having multiple timeslots catering to a global playerbase. You will never please everybody, maybe it really can’t be done any better, but I’d maybe be able to hit 2 of these out of the total rotation consistently.

Another issue that I noticed, is the lag / desync seems pretty awful with vehicles. Sometimes I’d eject from my vehicle on the roof and end up falling behind the wall a significant distance from where i was intending to exit. Kind of annoying but I just started ejecting later.

Something i noticed, aside from game mechanics and lag, was that it SEEMED like there was no plan from the attackers. I just hopped in the LA and asked for a team invite so it may be the case that they were coordinating more than it appeared.
I was up on the fortress walls as much as possible trying to fight the HC players that had free reign on everyone below. I’d get in a fight with one of them and another would show up to help in most cases. Or someone on the ground would look up and launch a rocket up my ass. Then defenders up top would continue to take free shots at everyone below who already had their hands full trying not to get turned into red mist by a nano swing.

From what I’ve seen, HC has a pretty effective strategy for defense. It doesn’t seem like anything super crazy. Maybe they all have hand drawn maps of rotation routes, but it seemed like they just had a simple game plan that was effective and easy and stuck to it. They spread out in groups, have some of their lower hp (sub 500?) players on high ground rotating to assist. Attackers need to counter strat, or at the very least fight for and take high ground inside the fort. If i had even 2 more players up there with decent gear and hp to tank a shot or 2 it would have been a much more effective attack. As I said, I just asked for a team invite and did my own thing so I’m not trying to throw shade at AO or the other attackers, I have no insight into the levels of coordination they have and I can’t see everything thats happening all at once.
Many of the players on HC side are very killable by some of us on the lower end of the spectrum (I’m around 350 running 10mg pills and items) you just need positioning for the attack to take as many advantages as possible. Mechanical skill and knowing how to jiggle peek from cover is pretty significant as well. No you aren’t going to be able to kill them with an LR40, but should you really?

It did feel slightly impossible to kill some of them at times, hitting them for 150-300 with a Camo BGH didn’t really do shit, but the reality is MA cannot nerf these players. That would be completely backwards and retarded. They need to introduce more tools so that their opponents can deal with them, HP% reduction mindforce chips that can stack from multiple players IMO, I don’t recall if HP reduction debuffs were part of the new chips. It would need to be significant after stacks are built with a decent duration for it really to matter.

Someone recently had mentioned craftable ammo with buffs or debuffs in another thread I believe, same idea. Give me an ammo that does 50% less damage but also lowers the targets HP equal to 25-100% of the damage dealt (maybe different levels of this ammo), that stacks (up to 60% or more of total hp?) with lowish duration and can be refreshed at max stacks. Make it craftable with oils and other cube food (use makeup if you want) to increase markup. I’m not a game dev, or expert in balance, but something along those lines seems reasonable.

Also make slots for MF chips that run on cooldown so they don’t need to be equipped and can just be fired off as an ability please for the love of god. PVP aside, the games so fkn laggy i get locked on my resto chip after equipping it for 10 seconds before my goddamn weapon will come out again sometimes.

7 Likes

A good read and nice to see the LG through the eyes of an outsider. :thumbup:

Can’t someone just organize a team with enough players that they don’t know who to shoot at? ?

This sounded really fun. I must try pvp soon, especially with those new weapons.

Ya there definitely needs to be automatic red targets on all enemy players. I’m new to it too but it’s rediculous especially with tattoos and chips for movement speed, pills and items for run speed, speed hacks, agility, and whatever other crap I can’t think of at the moment over 20 years in this game. I have no idea how my team even sets targets sometimes with couple of them going the speed of light let alone first hovering over to see the name (which is necessary before every shot or u risk killing a friendly). It would be hard to do probably since there could be multiple teams and players not in a team but even if MA could either do 1 of these options whichever is easiest at least but preferably #1:

  1. Put targets on opposing team for the people in your team to see or even better blue also for your team (this would leave out people not in team so still a decent portion would have to see name and deal with targetting and hesitate or make their name white target)

  2. Put blue target on all soc that currently holds the fort from previous LG for everyone to see (would at least limit the need for a lot of targets and significantly help balance the LGs since the holders can TP out where the mobs are and kill us with ease from behind since we assume they are a mob, and holders don’t have that problem since no mobs are inside the fort)

  3. During entirety of the LG and inside the LG allow a set target to be kept the whole time (so even after death when you’d have to retarded again it’ll stay in place)

  4. Get rid of friendly fire for teams inside LGs and let the rockets rain (would be good for bonus shrap pool but not so good on our pockets lol)

@Socrates|Mindark if you really want to make pvp viable and have it be a good incentive for players, which it would be and is, you really should work on some of the technical aspects and other issues the more seasoned pvp people bring up and maybe talk to both Messi and Image before drastic type of changes so you know if it’ll be balanced properly with input on both opposing sides.

And for the love of God put pyrite back inside red pvp ONLY. While MA increased the use of damage enhancers “cycle” slightly with them being cheaper, the whole incentive to even play the game and skill/gear-up/play actively has been killed. But at same time would have to fix few other problems like not being able to rocket yourself, low HP nonlootable thing with fall damage, border mining etc. Unless cheating is so bad in pvp and you don’t know to deal with it please change that back.

My 2 cents added to chins good pov

  1. No
  2. No
  3. No
  4. No
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What solution do you think they should do then? It’d be good to hear HC member on it especially with recent movement speed boosters making it even harder to tell who’s who

Good glasses would be a goos start but make sure you don’t buy yellow ones, it makes you just dumb.

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Those who currently own the lands are mostly not going to want change.

Putting a red glow on enemies is a good idea.

I want change, that change will negate the anti-triggerbot change they made not long ago, that’s why i am against it. We also have issues seeing everyone as green dots, but i personally recognize who is who always, it comes with experience

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Ooo MA actually has an anti aimbot thing ok thats good at least. Is it not possible to somehow have a way to identify enemies without ruining that… and what about at least stopping friendly fire then for teammates?

Would change nothing, as you can already currently make a trigger bot based on a color, it’s just not as easy as before with the crosshair changing color in a static location when over a target.

I want the change in pvp to without aimbots or other shit but i know mindark is inept and all they so is copy paste code or ignore for next 10 years.

There is anti cheat software available, all they would have to do is pay for it and implement it.

yeah lmao joke of the century, mindark pay for smth for quality of the game.We all know mindark never cared for pvp.

Damm if that’s true and that easy it’d be self destructive to not do it. Get rid of aimbots and antilootable exploits, move pyrite back in pvp = massive move in the right direction and restoring faith in the game.

Putting a red glow on enemies is dumbing down a lot the PVP. Currently experienced players get along just fine, all you need is some experience.

Remember the days when they changed the speed so everyone was on mega steroids for a while, look how it looked like (and people still were able to find targets)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP_NHFKkyeI, list: PLqPnXUljdvi2cT7YxlSnWpZeb3DM5_18r

Also, in that playlist, there are dozens of videos from land grabs, there are friendly kills, but not as many as you may think. A bit of muscle memory and it’s fixed.
Some players even said that pvp should be like hunting mobs where you could use a key to lock on avatars… how retarded would that be? I started playing in PVP after the select target dark ages and those times made the number 1 strongest soc completely quit PVP. After it got fixed, the whole scene change drastically. We don’t want to go back to those times.

And we don’t need to dumb it down, people need to rise to the requirements in order to be able to engage in such fights.. A little bit of skill, a little bit of L gear, a little bit of dexterity, basically is all you need.
Do give this playlist a watch if curious how people are able to see shit even at high speeds: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqPnXUljdvi2cT7YxlSnWpZeb3DM5_18r

Definitely not advocating for this lol.. just a slight way to see who’s an enemy or at least a very small always visible name above someone’s head. You still need to be able to aim + gear + skills to kill them 0 change in that regard.. just would be even more fun just fighting and not having to designate people to stand at a revive and highlight someones name with a target and then repeat that waste of time and stupid process over n over… I advocate for more fun and less BS. But idk the technical aspect if that would cause easier aimbots and stuff then not worth it

2 Likes

I don’t think I’d agree that being able to quickly read small text in motion should be part of pvp skill. You can memorize what frequent enemies look like, but armor and clothing are sometimes changed so that’s not always reliable.

And if you want more skill involved remove MediStims so people have to fap.

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yes

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If we are gonna be real about this valve have not had a great run at stopping cheaters in CS, MA will definitely not do any better. As far as target identification, I don’t have enough experience in pvp yet to truly know what the best course of action is. Or if any needs to be taken at all.

However in most competitive shooters teams wear different uniforms / have different models making it easy to identify who is who. Or in the case of valorant where models are shared across teams you do get the red outline. Your teamates silhouettes are also visible through walls. In CS terroists look different than Counter terrorists, and teammates nameplates are visible over their models.

I’ve played a lot of competitive shooters at a high level, and not a single one of them required me to mouse over someone to see their name to make sure I’m not shooting a teammate. In my opinion it doesn’t really add anything, just limits your reaction time. I’ll adapt if necessary and still enjoy it, this is a feature in games like Tarkov or other realism shooters. Entropia doesn’t exactly fit in that category tho so i don’t understand the reasoning for it, unless it is a lazy attempt at anti aimbot. Something as simple as players on your team having name plates would solve the problem, and you’d still get to accidentally murder friendlies if they aren’t in the team.

Not sure that anyone mentioned F to auto attack enemies in PVP lol. Tbh i think it is more fun to just guess who’s who and if someones in my crosshair i’ll just start blastin regardless, but it doesn’t lend itself very well to competition. You could argue this adds another layer, I mean I guess it technically does. I just think it slows down people who have raw mechanical talent.

I hit a really nasty flick on i think Tsunade? running up the ramp to the gate… but they were on my team and i crit em for like 450. So i stopped going for flicks at that point lol.