Play to stay Estate investment requirements

Planet Specific Discussions Planet Calypso
1

I dont know but it seems to me that if you invest into this world you would at least need to log in and play on occation.

We have alot of investments in the estate world just sitting in people’s inventorys not doing anything, and some other people that could really get some use from it.

I think the Bank of MA might need to forclose on some estates and set a bid on some estates set to 1.00 ped. and allow new blood to buy some estates, and possibly breath of new life into the sector.

Forclosures may be bad IRL. but they do serve a purpose. and that is to find a new value for failed investments, in the hopes better investments may be made.

And we have alot of failed investments by non active players.

So perhaps a failure to pay an upkeep, a Governed Tax, or whatnot can take an estate away from a irrespondsible, or inactive player, and find a new price through forclosure. this could bring estate values down but at the same time allow for the best estates well managed to be really worth more.

Instaed of having some estate not worth the current price to be sold at a higher price when it is just not the correct case. Forclosures in game.

We need some Forclosures and public forclosure auctions. Get some estates out of the hands of the inactive, or poor land managers.

and yes the answer is yes i would be pissed off if i was forced to sell something below what i bought it for, becouse i wanted to hold onto it for resell for higher. but the reality is there should be some risk of forclosure just as there is risk IRL. this will make the game economy better. imo

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2

Do as out here in the RL, build new houses to fill the demand. I have several estates but I pay my rent.

Rereading your last part. Why should this only work for estates. Wy should an estate investment differ from any other? Unused items would go with the same rule?

I think your thought wasn’t the deepest and well thought through…

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3

Well as with regular items you have a regular TT price to find the liquid position. But With estates you do not have a TT value and the value is expressed by the players only.

That is why this only applys to estates.

As as for you my frieind you seem to be a responsible owner, that pays rents and fees. but what is your punishment if you dont?

4

There is to much Ifs in your idea…

What IF MA changes the setup (like a new graphical engine) so the owner of an estate can’t log in cause hi’s computer doesn’t meet the specs?

What if the computer brakes?

What if the owner turns ill?

What if owner is on vacation?

What if the owners Credit Card doesn’t work for deposits?

What if MA fucks up the owners income with a new VU? (hangar owners, booth owners etc)

I come back to my old idea to give veryone a basic estate and have the others for the ones who wanna upgrade to something flashy.

I have other “investments” that I don’t use like decorations and art. Should I pay a penalty or have them changed for TT value if I don’t hang them in an estate?

5

Bad idea…

Very, very, very bad idea…

As as for you my frieind you seem to be a responsible owner, that pays rents and fees. but what is your punishment if you dont?

If he does not pay his rent, which really should be called a maintance fee, his doors close. You seem to be making a very, very, very bad assumption that anyone that has an estate that does not have maintance fees paid is a bad player, or whatever. A large chunck of apartments, etc. are basically used as closets by deed holders. They pay the maintance fee only when they want to get in there and get access to the items. They think of it and use it more as a rented closet space than an “apartment.”

I personally have 3 estates in one building in Omegaton West Habitat… a booth and 2 apartments. I just acquired the second apartment not long ago by trading for another apartment I had half a continent away. Now, I did pay my estate fees before that trade, and LOST money in the deal since I paid a few months rent on an apartment that I now don’t own!.. I don’t mind much though since I wanted to consolidate in to one place. I currently don’t have anything in my second apartment since I’m slowly building an apartment shop with shopkeepers. The second apartment is for eventual expansion. It took many many, many, many months, a lot of cash, and patience to acquire 3 estates in one building. If my second apartment got “forclosed” as you say, it would be massively unfair since it was purchased to expand later. Do you see folks in the real world loosing their farms if they don’t develop them in to sky scrapers? Nope… it’s the same thing sort of. The “maintance fee” is suppossed to be a fee to pay for rental of server space needed to access items in the apartments. The fee should be lowered, and/or completely abolished in my humble opinion, especially since it’s not equally applied. Booths don’t have maintance fees, nor should they since they only have so few item slots in them. Apartments have fees of 10 peds or so per month. Mall shops have much higher fees, and hangers don’t have any fees every month either, other than use fees that come in the form of decay, oil expense on the ship, etc. I think if all fees were abolished, it would be a great thing.

Marco said in the recent interview he wants us to build cities, so by golly, lets start building more cities, but lets not unfairly apply monthly charges to some but not others…

If this forclosure idea of yours ever gets implemented, I certainly hope such an unfair burden would also be applied to those that don’t have estate deeds - in other words, lets put a monthly locker fee on that huge storage bin you use daily, and give you a deed to it so that it will get forclosed on if you don’t pay it! Additionally, you should only start with 1 item slot in your inventory until you can afford to purchase more storage somehow. Lets go a step or three further if you want it to be more like real life - You cannot sleep out in the streets. If you don’t own an estate, and have to sleep outside, lets have the in game cops come and put you in jail like real world freeloading hobos and homeless folks… Your homeless shelter can be the Sweat Camp and if you are found anywhere else, the cops can come and take you back there. Wouldn’t that more or less be the same level of absurdity as to what you are suggesting.. ?

This latest fiasco with the resettlement created “resettlment boxes” which have 100 item slots in them. MA|FPC pushed every estate owners stuff in to their inventory and those boxes when VU 10.0 hit. Many estate owners may not even be able to log in currently since system requirments changed with VU 10.0… “resettlement boxes” are really like mini-apartments you can pack with you. As those get used more by current deed holders, and as more folks abandon Calypso for the other planets, if they ever arrive, I suspect you might be able to find more vacant real estate that you can buy, not that there already isn’t tons of deeds on the auction daily.

Shoot, I can’t even use my booth since vu 10.0, nor can any other booth holder that has a booth in the apartment basements because of a bug that won’t let us put things down in the estate without the chance that anyone else can come and take the stuff. I’m really, really, really hoping MA|FPC fixes that soon and gives out some sort of compensation for this horrible bug, in the form of at least one shopkeeper, as they have done for other booth holders in pre-vu 10 days when there was booth bugs that cropped up.

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Hmmm Seems like a good counter post. many valid points.

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This is a great idea. People who own real estate and don’t pay maintenance fees on it regularly should be foreclosed upon. Part of the agreement when you buy an apartment or hangar or shop is that you will pay FPC a bit because you are renting it. Nirfu, you mentioned that “why shouldn’t investments other than apartments, etc be foreclosed upon if you don’t use them?” Simply because you aren’t renting them. When you buy bombs from the TT, you are buying them outright and becoming the sole owner of them. This is just like real life, which is what EU is trying to emulate (albeit in a futuristic setting). Paying rent on an apartment, hangar, or shop (and whatever else) is PART OF THE DEAL. You know you’re going to have to pay rent on it to stay open. So what’s the big deal if you get your title deed revoked because you can’t pay for it? Yes it’s true that business could have gone bad and you couldn’t support your shop, but that’s what happens sometimes. In the United States, less than half of all small businesses make it past four years. So of course there will be some symmetry in EU.

I can’t count how many shops I have looked at and tried to go into only to be shunted out and told “You may not enter this shop as the owner has not paid the rent”. We need revitalization in the EU economy, and one step towards that is getting rid of poor investments (e.g. people who don’t pay their rent). It’s a waste of space, and frankly it makes me not want to visit malls anymore because it’s kind of depressing to see that all the shops in said mall are closed because the economy is tanking.

8

These unused estates do get reclaimed and resold once the account is inactive long enough that it gets deleted. If the owners however are logging in and are choosing not to pay and use their property … then who the hell are you to tell them what to do with their own stuff?

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I’m not telling them what to do. When they voluntarily decide not to pay (that is, not because they can’t, but because they won’t) I believe that the renter must act in accordance with smart business practices and cut their losses (e.g. they foreclose, and whoever was renting is SoL).

In the real world, if I decided to buy a house and rent it out to someone and we agreed that in order to live there and be considered the lessee of the property, they had to pay monthly for it, I would completely revoke their privileges of the home if they refused to pay me.

Why is this hard to understand?

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Why is it so hard to understand that estate owners are NOT renting. We are paying a maintance fee.

To the OP Just for interest what would you do with an estate?

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11

I’m sorry, but if I didn’t pay someone a fee for a piece of property and I wasn’t allowed to use that piece of property anymore, I would call that rent.

I really like your signature by the way (honestly)

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12

Uh, I think the simple overriding fact here is this:

Those who’ve bought apartments and shops or whatever did so in the understanding that they still OWN the property, and simply have to pay to get access to it.

If these terms changed, you’d have a lot of (very reasonably) annoyed people.

Please do not forget here, there are a lot of people who have bought everything they own in game simply because they know it belongs to them for the long term, whether they play regularly or not. I’m sure most people who’ve shelled out over a hundred bucks for an estate who doesn’t play at the moment won’t really appreciate your sentiments in this matter.

Personally, I’m happy for there to be proper rented accommodation in game that people do not have to buy in the first place. That would work well, and I think would be good for a number of people - but leave the rest alone :slight_smile:

I quite like the idea that you could rent a temporary accommodation for a month or so, and maybe if you don’t pay your rent by the due date, you get all your inventory returned to your storage or something.

You just can’t go changing fundamental terms of what’s in game already. That would be bad for everyone, and it would destroy what remaining confidence people have in the game.

13

Im probably the prime example of why something like this wont work. I own 2 appartments in TI city.

I use one as a hair salon / body sculptors. The other I use as a textures warehouse where I can layout and see all my textures easily.

At the moment im on a bit of a hunting drive for SGA so i dont do much texturing or teture crafting. As a result that appartment is no use to me and ive decided to stop paying the maintainance for now.

In the hair salon I have everything setup again (finally) and to be honest it looks like crap. All the stuff i spent thousands of peds coulouring looks like garbage and none of the salon functionality works. Once again as a result i decided to stop paying the maintainance on that one too.

What would you have happen in each of these situations?

14

If a weapon or tool has min TT it can not be used. In order to use them they have to be repaired (pay a fee). If they are not repaired they are unusable. What’s the difference between that and an estate? :scratch2:

15

That is a very good point.

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the 1st statement most accurately depicts what i am trying to say. however Just to say forclosure, i mean your deed is automaticaly put on the market for min bid with no buyout. and you get the money from the sale. so all delequent estates are constantly in a state of price flipping, revitilizing the market.

well if your not paying a mantnence fee wouldnt that mean your investment should lose value, IE be taken from you put on the auction for min bid, and you get the money from the sale?

And i would do what ever i wanted to it just like you do. but i am a stiff believer in penetys for poor management, and ideas to make a better economy of sorts.

A weapon and a tool have a set TT value that happens to be priced by the game and not the player population.
A estate has No real TT value and is limited in the aspects of population, and the price is determined by the population. So your inability to pay a fee to maintain your estates affects my ability to cheeply buy or compete to buy my own estate. As your weapon you wish to not repair really does not affect me at all.

Just so you guys know i just like starting some conversation on the subject. Just for debate. and perhaps to open up new ideas that no one has thunk before. So dont take offence i dont wanna target people, i just want to target the idea debate. so dont trip to much :smiley:

17

Well that’s a poor understanding of the TOU. :wink:

18

Terrible idea. People paid for em and should be free to do with there items, real estate,etc… as they choose. If they want to tt it all it’s there business.
:mad:

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A estate has No real TT value and is limited in the aspects of population, and the price is determined by the population. So your inability to pay a fee to maintain your estates affects my ability to cheeply buy or compete to buy my own estate. As your weapon you wish to not repair really does not affect me at all.

The price of anything in the real world is “determined by the population” and has zero TT value as well. Your car’s price was “determined” by a mutual agreement between “the population” that owns the car company and yourself. The price of all things irl are like that.

A weapon and a tool have a set TT value that happens to be priced by the game and not the player population.

Under your line of thinking a weapon or tool should never be sold for more than TT value if it has less than full TT value because it is “broken” so is worth less than it should be - and actually that is sort of the way L items work… but it’s definitely not the way repairable things work or should work. Imagine what would happen if MA|FPC changed the way that trading worked so that anything that has less than full TT value could not be put on the auction or trade window, and could only be put in to the TT or a shop. That actually might not be such a bad idea since it would make the shops worth visiting a little more than they are now when they are in major competition with the auctioneer.

I’m not telling them what to do. When they voluntarily decide not to pay (that is, not because they can’t, but because they won’t) I believe that the renter must act in accordance with smart business practices and cut their losses (e.g. they foreclose, and whoever was renting is SoL).

In the real world, if I decided to buy a house and rent it out to someone and we agreed that in order to live there and be considered the lessee of the property, they had to pay monthly for it, I would completely revoke their privileges of the home if they refused to pay me.

Why is this hard to understand?
Creating a stable market is part of the job of FPC. If your idea of forclosing was to happen, the market would no longer be stable, just like irl with the recent recession that came in to place primarily because a bunch of banks started giving poor folks (n00bs) easier access to home ownership.

Being new to the virtual world, you probably don’t remember a couple of years ago when the Estates section of the auction was litterally about 60 pages long. If what you are proposing happened, that sort of thing would happen again, which also creates an unstable economy. Like irl, if you snooze you loose. We can’t help it that you did not enter the game a couple of years ago and buy an apartment deed when prices were 300 ped a pop basically.

20

Correct me if I’m mistaken but the idea or suggestion is to take away people their estate deeds and resell them if they don’t maintain them (pay the rent)?

For apartment, no, An apartment is “private” or well you can decide whether to let people in or not, and quite frankly people have nothing to do in other peoples aps unless theres an hairsaloon or likewise there :stuck_out_tongue:

as for shops…

I don’t think they should force them away from people nessecarily.

atm the problem with ghost malls and ghost shops is due to there only beeing 2 malls “close” to civilization, PA and Twins

emerald mall… whos idea was it to go into some far F*** all distant place and go “hmmm we need an mall here”..

new oxford shops where really hid away too…

shops and malls should be in places with great traffic only, easy accessible and not “a pain in the arse moving around in” alot of improvement can be done there.

and shops that are inactive for so and so long (I know there are many even in PA mall…) those shops regardless of player beeing on holiday should get an email noting somthing like “if you dont shape up and maintain your store, you will loose your estate deed and it will be auctioned and the profit will go to MA”

why? why not… if one buys an shop and just decides to leave the game for whatever reason leaving everything behind, someone else could have had it and say in this case the shop could have been owned by someone who’d like it and take care of it.

maybe even something along like having the rent beeing dragged automatically out of the ped card, if two or 3 payments are “attempted to be drawn” and is not succsesfull IE the person who left didnt care enoug hand lost their 1000 ped on rentals without knnowing (their own fault obviously) or they simply just lost their appartement.

when I had my app in TI city and decided to not use it I sold it so that someone else could have it instead of sitting on the deed just because I invested on it and will never use it.

why would this be bad? well people will obviously whine and moan like kids for not taking responsibility for what they do, if they loose it hell will break loose because they themself refuse to see that it’s their own fault.

why is it good? estates would go around more, appartements and shops for example would florish most likley as more people would get their hands on shops, more competition would rise as this happened and it would mean more jobs for hunters, miners and crafters alike. 1-3 people wouldn’t be able to have an monopoly as more and more shops would pop up with various gear and materials, they would have to compete for custommers in not only having and representing an good shop but good products aswell.

atm malls and shops are repressing ALOT if not everything of what is shop and player market outside EF and the auctioneer.

and as more shops would be easier accesable and more filled up people shoping and looking for better deals than what the auctioneer would have

atleast shops a VERY good portion of that market would and will be fixed if people are either “forced” to keep their shops maintained or “forced” to give them up.

it woulden’t affect those who already are shop owners as they already do this and a big cudos to them, for those who just have shops and dont use them.. another thing is shop prices which IMO is alittle high. I personally would love an shop, but 15 - 30k is a thad expensive investement to do for me atleast :stuck_out_tongue:

shop market is very broken but theres alot that can be do to fix it :stuck_out_tongue: but ye as i mentioned about forcing people to maintain or force them to give up (read above) would really help :stuck_out_tongue:

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