I read your entire post, and I demonstrated that your arguments were illogical, or lacked any testing, or were just ridiculous. Do you have any better ones? You did not “illustrate” anything. It seems that your argument in summary is just “you can’t absolutely prove anything”.
Simply repeating over and over “you’ve proved nothing” doesn’t make it so. It just makes it look like you will go to your deathbed denying you were wrong, no matter what.
Has any one take a test on street kings at Rocktropia, lol have full shadow and Doa rj me → no chance, need a mod fapper now days.:lolup:
@Nighthawk
Well if you criticize comparing 2 different mobs in the test data, have a look at my small set of data ( at least a couple of hundered mobs killed there ). It compares the same mob pre and post VU.
Well you are right it does not prove that the moblevel and lowering it causes the drop in skillgains, but it clearly shows a significant drop between the pre and post VU runs. Too much difference there for statistical fluctuation
Since there were no noticeable changes except the displayed moblevel the assumption is not far fetched that lowering it caused the drop in skillgains.
I say i have no proof, that lowering the level changed something, but i clearly see skillgains changed.
Xen, your test proves that Mob level is not the deciding factor for skill volume gain, or at least not the one with the most impact.
How so?
Between the two tests, mobs had same health, same gun used, same peds were spent, close to the same number of kills…
Additionally, several people have reported that compared to last VU skill gain is down over 50% on carabok while no one has reported any difference in attack speed, damage done, regen rate or any other attribute other than mob level.
So please explain your statement.
You demonstrated nothing, and you certainly did not comment on any of my arguments. In fact, you didn’t even quote an argument, you quoted some examples related to one!
I am out of this thread, you’re obviously not possible to discuss this with :laugh:
Whatever man. You have come hear with just denial, no logical arguments, just accusations, and no testing. I try to present something factual with evidence, you just say no no no, yet I am the one that is difficult to have a discussion with…
To others,
I am not saying I am 100% right. However, if you disagree, at least present a logical alternative, and preferably with some testing of your own. Just making statements like “you’re wrong” is not helpful.
Because Xen, what you are basically saying i that a L4 mob gives 3 times as much skills as a L1 mob per se.
If you think about it for just an moment you realize that this is not true and never was true. Everyone who ever tested skill gains in an even remotely “scientific”* manner knows it isn’t.
How much more skills would a level 12 mob give then? Again 3 times as much as the level 4, 12 times as much as the level1? Even if not linear, we would know that. Quite some people test skill gains all the time.
Why does Daspletor give only 60% of the skill volume compared to say Argonaut then? They sure do have an higher mob level. Lack of kill bonus due to high HP accounts for most of that, but if what you claim would be true then the massive higher level (if linear or whatever) should more then make up for it, it doesn’t.
Or another example, find another L4 mob with least HP possible and see if you will ever get the same volume then from Carabok. You won’t.
So unless you stick with the claim (and i really doubt you will) that a level 4 mob per se gives 3 times as much skill volume then a level 1 mob, you have proven with your test one thing: That Carabok had an “skill bonus” attached (one of the biggest i have ever seen tho) by MA, like they did in the past with other mobs at times (even if you think it is a myth).
Edit: Just to be clear, i am not saying there is no connection whatsoever between mob level and skill gain. I am saying Carabok is the worst example you could have come up with to substantiate your claim.
Xen why do you bother trying to show something to blind people?
I have not said that your actual test is wrong. You may even be correct about mob level and skill gains being directly related.
However, you have not even commented on my arguments, you have commented on some examples I used to support my single argument: Your test is not enough to prove your thesis.
Your argument is:
In the same way, someone else could argue:
Or even:
No, I am not saying that a green mob does give more skills. I am, however, saying that this theory could be supported in the exact same way as your theory.
The “green mobs give more skills” theory is obviously wrong, while your theory may be correct. However, more testing is needed to actually prove it.
What seems the most logical to me is that skill gain rate and L numbers are indirectly related (which would also be supported by your test), since both are based directly on the actual stats of the mob.
Lets think about this a sec. Say daspletor is level 90 with say 7000 hp. You have a carabok with level 10 and 10 hp. It takes 700 times as much PED to kill a daspletor, but only gives 9x as much per kill. You don’t get 90x as much skill per PED spent on the daspletor, you get 9/700 as much skill, or 1.2%
First, I did not anywhere say it was linear. I won’t “stick with this claim” because I never made that claim. Sorry if what I said seemed misleading to you. I said in this case there is about 3X the skill gain, meaning a big, obvious difference. This does not mean you will get 3X the skill gain from a level 12 mob or whatever (you can’t find a level 12 mob with 10 hp now). The argument remains, higher mob level (with same everything else) means more skill gain.
Kind of irrelevant given my clarification, but your Daspletor example is likely due to kill bonuses. Kill bonuses have always (or for a long time) been large in relation to skills gained while killing the mob, which I’m sure you know.
If you can find me another mob that is level 4 with 10 hp I’ll test them as an alternative to carabok (if the spawn allows reasonable testing). Or, there is nothing stopping anyone from testing themselves. I don’t believe mobs are given special skill giving abilities. Everyone used to think tantillion gave extra skill. At the same time I was getting the same skill gains blowing up merps… If someone can produce test results of the same level mobs of near equal cost to kill giving significantly different skill gains, I’ll change my belief.
If anyone doesn’t like my test, do your own. Just make sure you’ve eliminated variables such as unequal number of kill bonuses and stuff like that which would make the test invalid.
I have some information sent to me by PM, suggesting if you go to Camp Icarus there are (or used to be) a variety of Punies with the same HP but varying mob level from 1 to 3, and that L3 ones give significantly more skill than L1 ones. And that you get way more green lines from L3 killshots than L1 killshots.
I haven’t verified it myself, but I see no reason for the guy to lie about something that is fairly easily tested.
No. What appears to be the case is that if you had a Hogglo Young L10 and a Hogglo Young L20, you’d get more skill from the L20.
It seems to at least some extent that high regen mobs used to give more skill per spend than non-regen mobs. Certainly I noticed that on Eviscerator. I think it was you who told me you saw the same thing on Kreltin? And also, high regen mobs seemed to have inflated mob level (ie. they were easier than low-regen mobs that had the same mob level). I’ve not had time to test it at all yet, but it’d be interesting to see if since having their L number reduced if these mobs now produce more ‘normal’ levels of skill gain. I think they probably will.
I think the theory is more that if you have two mobs with the same HP, and different L number, the one with higher L number will give you more skill.
The suggestion I’ve seen is that the L number determines the amount of killshot skill gain. That would be consistent with the Carabok and Puny experiments, without being voided by your Dasp results.
That is not the entirety of the argument. I eliminated virtually all other variables, except for stuff like the forever unproven belief that some mobs just give more skill.
Attributes like you mentioned determine the mob level. This was obvious when all higher regen mobs previously had a higher mob level/health ratio. Also, any time MA or a PP made adjustments to mobs, like health of Yuka young for example, the level changed. This was extremely unlikely to have been coded manually. Furthermore, none of the attributes of carabok changed with the VU, yet several people reported a 50% decrease in skill gain. It’s because of the mob level, nothing else changed (at least nothing has been reported and I didn’t see any other change). The formula to determine and change the mob level was changed (regen has less influence).
Yes, that is a possible conclusion of what has happened… I am simply saying that it is also possible that the L number and the skill gain rate on Carabok were adjusted seperately (since Carabok used to give a ridiculus amount of skill per PED cycled on them).
Kill skill.
Will post later in the week
I will post properly later in the week on how all this works, in some detail. I just need a quiet afternoon at work to write it up!
The truth is that just about everyone who has posted on this thread is correct to some extent. Yes, of course there is a definite relationship between mob level and skill gain - that is utterly beyond doubt - but at higher mob levels this relationship becomes heavily diluted and at very high mob levels it is almost irrelevant.
I just need to confirm one more theory first before I can do a big post with everything I know.
In the meantime, please don’t kill the messenger who has bothered to actually post some test results!
Forrest 
And i did not assume you did, i was trying to make an point (exaggerated, with question marks for a good reason). But if an level 4 mob per se gives 3 times as much skill volume then an level 1 mob (your claim) then what is the correlation between mob level an skill gain?
If your assumption is true you could easy support your claim by any other test not involving Caraboks.
You made the claim that a level 4 mob per se gives 3 times more skills then a level 1 mob. That claim i doubt will hold. Thats what i was referring too, not the linear thing.
MindArk played with that even long before we got mob levels. They even turned it off over night on molisk when they realized that 200% base skill gains on them combined with the ongoing skill event at that time was a bit too much. But it was fast knife skilling for the two days it lasted. :laugh:
Leona, I’ll try to think of another test I can do that might help clear up some doubts.
I don’t know that I should be test slave though, other people can do these tests…
Possible, but I believe mobs had “mob levels” before we could see them (can’t prove that obviously). Was this after molisk were given high regen? If so, they would give more skill with the higher regen rate increasing their “mob level”. Either way, this is really a conversation about how things work now and relatively recently. I don’t believe two equal mobs could give very different skill gains now, but that’s yet another test.