MA revenue and lootpool....

[QUOTE=Cade]
i HAVE tried this. i live in the UK atm, but i tried when still in the US (no, im NOT american)… result: blankwall from marco. over and over again. no responses to support cases, ones going on 3 months old
[/QUOTE]

I’m not understanding what you’re saying Cade. You have written support about gaining access to such records? :laugh: Um, no… what Oije suggested was that there should be a way for ppl in Sweden (where MA is based) to gain access to such records… and he stated that perhaps not just any1 can do this, but more than likely ppl in certain professions (ie law) might be able to gain access.

btw, thx for clarifying you aren’t american b/c I was afraid :rolleyes:

rofl… i know. but i have a degree in business, own my own, and am involved quite a bit in such international affairs :rolleyes: if a lawyer can get it from city hall, i can too, and thats very similar to what im trying now. im going to get the records, its just the idea that MA isnt going to help in the least that peeves me…
and svet… ive been around the world many times… if most people say ‘oh, youre american?’ its down their nose. but if you want… edit previous post bravo.

Yes Cade- I understand fully what you are saying… just ensuring that MA support was not the outlet you were going to attempt to gain such info from. For the record, for those of us that deposit, we are basically share-holders in MA… I’ve always believed such financial information with regards to the company should be made public and certainly be available to investors… and I do believe they are public, in Sweden… just need some1 womewhere to find them :girl:

Swedish Version of Companies House will have the financial records for MA :wink:
https://snr3.bolagsverket.se/snrgate/default.jsp

Just to add, as Mindark is a private company they have no obligation to give you their financial records. If it was a public limited company then you can ask them for the accounts as its your shareholders rights.

Probably need to pay for the records. I know in the UK, Companies HOuse will give you the records of a company but it will cost you.

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[QUOTE=Svetlana]
For the record, for those of us that deposit, we are basically share-holders in MA…
[/QUOTE]
absolutely. as the value of what we own rises (and over the long-term, it has only ever risen) our ped-worth rises. people who have been around the longest, and/or deposited the least (like angel and gem) have amassed the most ‘stock’ and people who havent, the least. coulnt agree more.
[QUOTE=Aziphirael]
Swedish Version of Companies House will have the financial records for MA :wink:
https://snr3.bolagsverket.se/snrgate/default.jsp
[/QUOTE]
rofl… +rep because im thankful… unfortunately, english is the only germanic language i know. were it in anything cyrillic, or romantic, id be fine… but… :frowning: rofl. but +reps anyways :smiley:

[QUOTE=Aziphirael]
Swedish Version of Companies House will have the financial records for MA :wink:
https://snr3.bolagsverket.se/snrgate/default.jsp

Just to add, as Mindark is a private company they have no obligation to give you their financial records. If it was a public limited company then you can ask them for the accounts as its your shareholders rights.

Probably need to pay for the records. I know in the UK, Companies HOuse will give you the records of a company but it will cost you.
[/QUOTE]

Thx for linking this~! :girl:
btw- yes you are completely correct… as a private company they do not need to give out financial records… although check out this new thread (makes you wonder what will happen in the future if this goes through)…

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4241

Just to let you guys know, we are not considered shareholders of any kind by MA. The money we put in can be withdrawn at any time, it states that in the EULA.

[QUOTE=Svetlana]
for those of us that deposit, we are basically share-holders in MA…
[/QUOTE]
look at the key word, phobia… BASICALLY. no, by economic definition, we are not shareholders-- but if you consider the principle of what a shareholder is, thats exactly what were doing. so, we may not TECHNICALLY be shareholders… MA shares are as of yet, not open to the public (at least, not last i checked) so this is the fundamental customer’s stock.
p.s. a shareholder can sell his stocks at any time too. what does THAT have to do with it?

Wrong again. Shareholders purchase part of the company they hold shares with. PE is nothing like that. The money you put in is yours, it does not go to MA (as you can withdraw it at any time), and you do not recieve a part of MA or PE.

[QUOTE=Phobia]
Just to let you guys know, we are not considered shareholders of any kind by MA. The money we put in can be withdrawn at any time, it states that in the EULA.
[/QUOTE]
how old are you? if you make a sillly comment, read the reponses to it before making another…
[QUOTE=Phobia]
Wrong again. Shareholders purchase part of the company they hold shares with. PE is nothing like that. The money you put in is yours, it does not go to MA (as you can withdraw it at any time), and you do not recieve a part of MA or PE.
[/QUOTE]
the idea that it ‘does not go to MA’ is completely rediculous, and absolutely fallible.
what, you think the money youre depositing goes into a little lock box in iDeb labeled “MA will not touch this”?
they take it, invest it, pay server maintenance and staff costs with it, etc… MA ‘has’ your money even more than you did when it was still on your credit card, because at that time the potential for the money hadnt been invoked.

/rant OFF

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You just don’t seem to grasp what I’m trying to say. MA most likely spends the money we deposit, but that money is still ours. Unless we do something against the EULA, they cannot legally keep us from withdrawing that money.

That being said, purchasing shares in a company is nothing like putting your money in a bank, which is basically what a player does when depositing.

Also, what exactly does my age have to do with this? -rep for that comment, stay the course.

1 Like

[QUOTE=Phobia]
You just don’t seem to grasp what I’m trying to say. MA most likely spends the money we deposit, but that money is still ours. Unless we do something against the EULA, they cannot legally keep us from withdrawing that money.

[/QUOTE]

Actually, the EULA says this:

MindArk’s liability towards any Participant shall in each incidence be limited to no more than the initial amount transferred by said Participant into Project Entropia.

DD
:evilking:

Correct DD, I didn’t make myself very clear when saying that. Basically, if I deposit $10 USD, and do not spend it on an item, and can withdraw that amount of money freely.

I actually have to side with Cade on this… While technically, depositors are not investors, if we look at it from a different angle, and that being that we deposit money which they use to maintain servers, pay staff etc… and if we’re really careful with our money… we can earn an increase on it… and then get it back at some stage… this is exactly like investing… apart from not “owning” a part of the business… but we’re talking about depositing now, not ownership…

But really guys, why are we getting uptight ??? Can’t we keep this thread constructive ? Its these threads I really love on EF, because we’re getting to use our minds, and do some thinking… and seeing different ideas from different people… lets not bash eachother.

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[QUOTE=Phobia]
Correct DD, I didn’t make myself very clear when saying that. Basically, if I deposit $10 USD, and do not spend it on an item, and can withdraw that amount of money freely.
[/QUOTE]

Agreed. However, an Attorny may read the same statement to say “If your first deposit to PE was $10 then that is all they are EVER liable for”. Just something to think about.

DD
:evilking:

I think we should bring that issue to MA’s attention. That kind of statement is a bit too vague, thanks for that insite DD.

When you buy shares in MindArk you would invest in the company itself, where PE us the only service of MindArk atm (as I’m aware off). You would then be liable to the investment itself only (as the company is a Limited Company “AB”). If MA venture into other services/products that would be apart of your investment. The Return Of Inventment (ROI) will be in form off yearly dividends or you could sell your shares with a profit. Comment; as MA is not a public, the market is not liquid and its often difficult to sell them.

However when you deposit you are only investing in PED’s which are the currency in PE. The PED’s can be used to invest in digital content which exist solely in PE only with a certain TT value. MA may only return the total TT values of your assets in the game, even here have MA safeguarded themself in the EULA to the extreme. The EULA states that MA are not even liable to return your TT values. Potential Market values on your items are not considered a value before they are sold.

You do not have any ownership to MA or PE whatsoever when depositing to PE, but you are a owner off your own assets, with the respective TT values.

A few explanations in terms used in PE equal to terms used in MA’s balance sheets.
Depositing = equal to Total Income
Withdrawal = equal to Total Cost

MA’s Profit = Depositing - Withdrawal - operating cost
MA’s liability to PE players = their respective Total TT value, not what they have been depositing. EDIT: where the EULA limits to the actual initial deposit, been said earlier in this forum

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[QUOTE=Phobia]
Also, what exactly does my age have to do with this? -rep for that comment, stay the course.
[/QUOTE]
sorry, didnt know id actually hit home there :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Devil Doll]
Agreed. However, an Attorny may read the same statement to say “If your first deposit to PE was $10 then that is all they are EVER liable for”. Just something to think about.
[/QUOTE]
… elaborate? :confused:

hebber, thx for the constructive post… but i wont quote/respond to anything from it directly until ive either had a couple of hours of sleep, or some more coffee ;p

[QUOTE=Sperlunker]
Another thing has been missed in all this aswell. What about the people that bought peds thru paypal, moneybookers, etc.? would they influence the equation? or would it not matter since the peds are still ingame and MA isnt gaining or losing money?
[/QUOTE]

Ppl that bought and sold peds thru paypal, I believe made the inflation in value of items even higher.
Reason for this is that ppl who deposit money in a legal way, will get TT-value back (on PED card) in peds from the controlled economy.
Ppl who “deposit” within Paypal only put in “inflation” as it doesn’t add peds in a macroeconomic perspective within PE.

Equation will be as this.

Loot + inflation + skill values = decay + ammo and other consumable resources spent.

Loot is money + items + increase in skill value. The items and skill value are the only that inflate. Also inflation in value of items and skills are something that prevent “vets” from paying to much for decay and ammo used.

/Kjetil :cool:

Some thoguhts

About MAs profit and turnover.
Reading some articles ive found this: http://www.vlado.se/bridge/case/Mindark_PE_AB_EN.pdf .
As you can see, there has been created 450,000 accounts during the time the game has been around, currently there is 270,000 accounts, which of 90,000 are active. How much activity that defines an active account i can only make a guess on, and mine would be that its accounts thats logged into from time to time to avoid them from being locked due to “time out”. Dont remember that exact timespan but i wonder if its 3 or 6 months.
Also you can see that MAs prognosis is 11 million SEK profit for 2005.
And yes, if the deposit ratio get too low, the game WILL dry up as there is no fresh investements to redistribute. No input means no output and if thats redicilous, you need to take some math classes.
Obviously MA wont give out money that we dont deposit and at the current time, without the deposits, the rest of the income MA has wouldnt be able to sustain a viable ingame economy for very long and if loots get TOO bad it get too expencive to play and people quit. Of course, its also somewhat self regulating as most people will make small deposits if they run out of cash.. however, the richest ones in this game can gon on for a longass time without depositing as they have avatars thats worth 150k PED and more.. much more.

About peds and items bough with other payment methods.
If I send Kjetil 1000 USD and take over all his ingame assets, that doesnt affect the economy of PE in any direct way. MA still have the cash in the game and if i spend them or if Kjetil spend them doesnt really matter much to them. However it might have indirect affects if Kjetil had it all stashed on an inactive account and never actually used any of it. If i take it over, its obviously because i want to use it and the fact that its in use instead of “ideling” makes some difference, as I can either lose or gain on the investment.
Also beware, this is now NOT ALLOWED to do according to the EULA, probably because MA got fed up with stupid “i got scammed on PayPal” support cases that they cant really do anything with.

As to depositing.
Depositing into PE is in my opinion just what some other people mentioned, paying for entertainment. However this entertainment can provide you with some serious profit.
Me and 4 other friends have made well over 10,000 USD profit each wich kinda sets the standard for how many people that have to deposit 100 USD only to cover our profits.
Most of this profit is also already withdrawn from the game.
The irony of it all is that we have been playing for the fun of it and not for the purpose of making profit, now thats the REAL fun :stuck_out_tongue:
If im uber or not.. not my decision to make really nor do i actually care very much, but i guess most people that know me would consider me to be.

As to the working of PE
There is several ways of going about how to play PE in a cheapest possible way. The way me and my friends has been going is to play for fun and to get as much as possible out of PE in that regard.
Most of us, if not all also have interests that goes beyond roleplaying and also covers computers, software engineering, economy, math and how games work, this of course made us go deeper into PE than we would in a normal pay-to-play MMORPG and made us look for things you normally wont look for. Of course inflation also helps when you buy an item and use it for a year before selling it, however most of my profit i have had from hunting and mining “the right things, at the right place, at the right time”. I have also had some profit with crafting, but im not too much into that.
Unfortunately, Im currently on ISDN so im unable to be as active as I used to be, but when I do play, i still usually come out with profit unless i try “new things”.

A great fighter was once asked how he got so much better than his opponents. his answer was “I have made more mistakes and found out what doesnt work”.
If you can affford doing that, thats another approach.

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