hi there… the following can be considered speculation on the subject, but i VERY much doubt im for from center… i wouldnt have bothered prompting this conversation, but i see so many people making silly comments about how non-depositing and withdrawing dries up MA revenues, and therefore PE… this was the most recent one, the one that made me realize it would make better use in a new thread…if not for conversational purposes, at least MB wouldnt have to interject his famed "lets try to stay on topic here… :rolleyes: "
[QUOTE=Devilmaster]
Basicly if we don’t put money in loot dry up since ma isn’t adding anything.
[/QUOTE]
i dont know what american business degrees stand for around here (rofl) but ive got one, and thats an absurdly rediculous comment… :rolleyes:
first, take a look at the depositing statistics… how many people deposit? how much do each deposit? and most importantly, how much do they withdraw?
if 50% of everyone in PE deposit (this is probably an absurdly low count) and each person deposits an average of 100 usd, with a top 1% of in excess of 5k usd (most uebers i know have deposited in excess of 8) … well, youd need the numbers for how many people play and how many of theirs are reflective avatars… i could present those figure, but theyd be assumptions. needlesss to say, the revenue MA brings in is extensive… the only way to come close to neutralizing the income would be to introduce a great % of withdrawing population… id say that less than 5% of PE make regular withdraws (not the one-time 'im quitting’s)… and you can be sure that they are not all in excess of 1k usd…
so, after youve established the point that MA IS bringing in more money than they are losing (d’oh, isnt that the DEFINITION of a profiting corporation?) think about what they do with the money… you hand them real money, they hand you virtual money. surely you dont think that they take all those credit card slips, and put them in a little lockbox marked “angel’s next withdraw” do you? ROFL
they invest it of course. stocks, banks, bonds, etc…
if i were them, id have established an ongoing stock broking relationship with a swiss banking system a good five years ago… prefferably the one I have accounts at a pleasant way for MA to bring in even MORE revenue. and besides that… why do you think it takes them months to make the withdraw? if it stayed money-on-paper in THEIR treasuries, id would take days, at the most weeks, to let costumers withdraw money in essentially any amounts…
ribbit i think im done ranting now. id love to hear other responses… i enjoy contstructive DISAGREEMENT far more than i enjoy “great post! i agree!” and no further comments or rep. :rolleyes: so please, speak your mind.
Actually I doubt if 10% of the 200 000 accounts actually play regularly… and then… I would say only 50-60% of those people actually deposit.
Of those, I reckon 50% deposit less than $50 a month… if not only $10…
so the numbers DONT look that good…
[QUOTE=The Mighty]
Actually I doubt if 10% of the 200 000 accounts actually play regularly… and then… I would say only 50-60% of those people actually deposit.
Of those, I reckon 50% deposit less than $50 a month… if not only $10…
so the numbers DONT look that good…
[/QUOTE]
Can’t remember where I saw it, but in case anyone can please post a link. Or correct me if I remember it wrong
But I believe I saw somewhere that MA said they made 58million dollars in a year.
So even if 100% of the 200K players deposited, that would make an everage of $24/month.
And if only 10% deposit that would make an average of (You guessed it) $240/month…
So someone is throwing ALOT of money into this game if there is as many freeloaders as many think there is.
[QUOTE=Euroman]
Can’t remember where I saw it, but in case anyone can please post a link. Or correct me if I remember it wrong
But I believe I saw somewhere that MA said they made 58million dollars in a year.
So even if 100% of the 200K players deposited, that would make an everage of $24/month.
And if only 10% deposit that would make an average of (You guessed it) $240/month…
So someone is throwing ALOT of money into this game if there is as many freeloaders as many think there is.
[/QUOTE]
I believe they where talking about the total ingame turnover (ie all sales/trades made ingame). Not what they as a company was making out of the game.
if I compare the amount of people I see sweating/rigging/doing nothing compared to the amount that actually hunt, mine or craft. I’d say a whole lot less than 50% of the active playerbase makes regular deposits (=
I also think that a whole lot less than 5% make regular withdrawals as well though, less than 1% even.
I see a lot of new players making threads like this speculating about the workings of the economy, don’t really get the point as there’s no way MA will give us the information and it’s impossible for us to know if our estimates are somewhat correct or way off. Especially for a new player who’s very unlikely to have any idea how it works in the “upper” levels of the PE society where regular withdrawals are possible.
It would be possible to get a fairly good estimate how much the average person deposits/withdraws if someone would make a big enough survey, but that information isn’t very useful when we don’t know how many active players there are, and I don’t think MA will give us that information until the number is big enough to impress us
[QUOTE=The Mighty]
Actually I doubt if 10% of the 200 000 accounts actually play regularly… and then… I would say only 50-60% of those people actually deposit.
Of those, I reckon 50% deposit less than $50 a month… if not only $10…
so the numbers DONT look that good…
[/QUOTE]
how does that disagree in the least with what i said? i said that IF 50% of everyone in PE deposits… and each deposited on average, 100 usd, etc. rofl… so what im saying is quite similar to your statements :rolleyes:
euroman, ill be looking for those stats on this forum and that-which-shall-not-be-named thanks.
devil-whatshisface… obviously you didnt read the whole thread, so you didnt get to my part about CONSTRUCTIVE comments?
and besides that… i find it somewhat ironic that you also negrepped me for having quoted you… i actually LOL’D over that one… efd to the first person who laughs at that :laugh:
edit since you beat me to post.
[QUOTE=mjukis]
I also think that a whole lot less than 5% make regular withdrawals as well though, less than 1% even.
[/QUOTE]
id actually agree… i was inflating the figures to exxagerate such rediculous statements like ‘withdrawing ruins the economy + lootpool!’ etc.
i wasnt as much making this post to make assumptions as to MA… its a corporation. i own one, i know how they run lol big or small, the only things that really change are desksize and stacks of paperwork.
i was more doing it to poke satiric fun at obnoxious, and completely ignorant statements… as made before
thx for constructive response.
oh, and ill be able to rep when MB gives me the rep button lol… ;p
[QUOTE=DarkAngel]
I believe they where talking about the total ingame turnover (ie all sales/trades made ingame). Not what they as a company was making out of the game.
[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, could be. My brain aint what it used to be… LOL
Ooohh wait, it’s the same as it used to be. It just never worked that well
devil-whatshisface… obviously you didnt read the whole thread, so you didnt get to my part about CONSTRUCTIVE comments?
and besides that… i find it somewhat ironic that you also negrepped me for having quoted you… i actually LOL’D over that one… efd to the first person who laughs at that :laugh:
[/QUOTE]
You grabbed a Quote out of a post in a completly different thread and made it into something else. Im not gonna get into any flaming with you or anybody else since i just don’t give a shit about your opinion. :laugh:
[QUOTE=mjukis]
I also think that a whole lot less than 5% make regular withdrawals as well though, less than 1% even.
[/QUOTE]
And when thinking how many withdraws regularly you have to remember that you are likely to see ubers a lot more than common players.
High level players have high visibility. They may actually be 0.1% or 0.01% of total active players but hoffing often, playing many hours and especially being active in forums (or in societies having forum activists) they may look like 10 or 100 times more common.
Also many PE players dont like to admit that they deposit. May sound silly but it’s really common for people to try to belittle their deposits. “Not depositting” is seen as a great status symbol in PE community and losing money is seen as very bad - very rarely as paying for entertaiment.
[QUOTE=Essi]
May sound silly but it’s really common for people to try to belittle their deposits. “Not depositting” is seen as a great status symbol in PE community and losing money is seen as very bad - very rarely as paying for entertaiment.
[/QUOTE]
it is?? rofl… i havent ever deposited because ive been UNABLE to… i am ueber!! i COMMAND you puny depositors of thousands of dollars to bow before me!! i demand you utter words of reverance for my non-depositing self… turns back to Lootius. “more tea?”
In my country (Austria) each company, as long it is not a single person company, has to publish their balance sheets. These staistics can be seen by every body. Any lawyer for commercial issues has an access to these databases directly.
I am sure that Sweden has similary rules. So before anyone is speculates about business volumes or profits, read the official numbers first.
In my country (Austria) each company, as long it is not a single person company, has to publish their balance sheets. These staistics can be seen by every body. Any lawyer for commercial issues has an access to these databases directly.
I am sure that Sweden has similary rules. So before anyone is speculates about business volumes or profits, read the official numbers first.
[/QUOTE]
Was actualy thinking about that, we have similar rules here in Denmark.
But not sure if it apply if a gamer wants to know the turnover of the company who made a game he has been playing for some time…
[QUOTE=Euroman]
Was actualy thinking about that, we have similar rules here in Denmark.
But not sure if it apply if a gamer wants to know the turnover of the company who made a game he has been playing for some time…
[/QUOTE]
Everybody can request a copy of last years balance from any company (at least in Norway). It’s an AB (dont know the english term here) and you may want to buy shares in MA, or whatever.
Any Swedes want to check this out? Would be cool to see the numbers.
MB if this is against the forum rules, please comment before somebody posts it.
[QUOTE=DarkAngel]
Everybody can request a copy of last years balance from any company (at least in Norway). It’s an AB (dont know the english term here) and you may want to buy shares in MA, or whatever.
Any Swedes want to check this out? Would be cool to see the numbers.
MB if this is against the forum rules, please comment before somebody posts it.
[/QUOTE]
Hmmm wonder if shareholders will get better loot…
Marco, if you read this, I would like to buy for 1K ped worth of shares… If you will give me a 1% loot increase for every 10ped worth of shares, I would like to buy for 10K peds
[SIZE=1]Sorry for the joking, now back on topic [/SIZE]
im still quite sure that out of all the ppl that play pe, however often, those that deposit are the minority. for all the ppl that i know of who depo from time to time or even on some kinda regular basis, there are a zillion low level players with 10-20k skill or less who have never depo’d and likely never will. everyone wants to play, no one wants to pay.
the ppl that are so down on depositing just happen to be the ppl that cant afford to do so. what a fuckin coincidence :rolleyes:
however theres still quite a bit of ‘difference’ in deposits. some depo on a regular basis. some depo quite a bit on a regular basis. some dont depo but have dumped in serious cash earlier in the games history.. and some dont actively depo but put in significant cash for a major purchase once in a while.
and after all this, if marco sat up in bed tomorrow morning and said hm im gonna post all our financial data just to shut these ppl up, im sure we’d see that the vast majority of pe doesnt put in any money.
theres nothing wrong with depositing. the money you put in pe you do so for entertainment. this is no different from spending money on another mmorg, just in a different format. similarly, the money you spend on a concert or movie is gone, just as it usually is when you depo into pe =D
but no flames pls, not only do i depo a ridiculous amt (based on what i think ‘should’ be enough money to keep going, in this game) but in the past week ive had two hofs, i still deposit. i put in 300-400 us dollars per month, and thats not including other expenditures. all my opinions would be the same even if i’d never depo’d at all.
i still dont really believe in a loot pool but theres alot of circumstancial evidence for it. id be extremely interested to find out how pe works, but at the same time i dont ‘care’ cuz i play for fun =D
I have to agree with Crys. I deposit quite a bit myself. I realize that it might be gone, but its just for fun. And as i have stated in quite a few other threads to me its a hobby. And any hobby is going to cost you some money. My friends that pay paintball probably put more in to that a month than i do into this.
I am also curious how things work. I must admit that i get frustrated when I deposit $400 in a game and get shit loot and i see people who i know havent put in anything hitting uberloot or 5 or 6 globals in one week. I personally thing that you should be rewarded for supporting all the non-depositers… but oh well.. Just goes to show that it doesnt seem to be linked to deposits.
At any rate i would like to see what MA makes a year, because i am in agreeance with everyone. I really dont think big depositers are that common, and at ~270000 (what the website says) i am guessing a huge amount of those are inactive, or onetime signups that played for a week and quit.
I recall ages ago complaining in game that we ought to be able to see MA’s financial numbers… aren’t they made public somewhere?
In any event, in regards to this conversation… I agree with quite a few peeps here that believe that, of the 200k players in PE, a minority of those can be considered active (not sure really, but I might guess a ball-park figure of around 60k). And of those actives (ie playing at least once a week or every few weeks) I would venture to guess that a minority are depositors on a regular basis. But what can be considered “regular basis”? We run into the following dilemma when hypothesizing… say some1 has only deposited once, and it was $10USD vs some1 who has deposited once for $500 USD. Perhaps the best tool would be to divide the amount of total deposits (by a single player) by the number of months that player has been in game. There, you will see a more accurate # of how much ppl deposit vs. the time they have been in game.
It would be my guess, from my own experience, the experience of my friends in game and my overall judgment after reading forums for 2.5 yrs, that the above number would be quite low on avg per player. Mind you, however- if you were to look at all of the stats, the # will be lessened by non-depositors and small/one-time depositors and balanced out by those ppl that deposit hundreds per month (oh yes, some1 asked if it was feesible for us to assume that a small % of the PE population deposits upwards of a couple hundred per month and I think it is… I know at least 4 ppl in game who I am friends with that regularly deposit between $150-$400 per month)
… and as Cade suggested, of course MA puts money into various places… our money goes into many different things (ie all MA expenses as well as MA investments for the future). Any good company is also a good investor, thus hopefully they are diversifying their portfolio in various avenues
Another thing has been missed in all this aswell. What about the people that bought peds thru paypal, moneybookers, etc.? would they influence the equation? or would it not matter since the peds are still ingame and MA isnt gaining or losing money?
[QUOTE=Oije]
In my country (Austria) each company, as long it is not a single person company, has to publish their balance sheets. These staistics can be seen by every body. Any lawyer for commercial issues has an access to these databases directly.
I am sure that Sweden has similary rules. So before anyone is speculates about business volumes or profits, read the official numbers first.
[/QUOTE]
i HAVE tried this. i live in the UK atm, but i tried when still in the US… result: blankwall from marco. over and over again. no responses to support cases, ones going on 3 months old. i dont think, somehow, that im likely to get a copy :mad:
[QUOTE=Crys]
theres nothing wrong with depositing. the money you put in pe you do so for entertainment. this is no different from spending money on another mmorg, just in a different format. similarly, the money you spend on a concert or movie is gone, just as it usually is when you depo into pe =D
[/QUOTE]
amen!!! this is hy i always laugh at the people who say “i refuse to deposit because its only a game!”
[QUOTE=Svetlana]
*Sveta- who is sry for the long reply
[/QUOTE]
dont apologize constructive criticism is worth a thousand “hey, i agree!” posts. and id like to thank EVERYONE (almost everyone) here for not having pulled that stunt. very mature of you.
[QUOTE=Sperlunker]
Another thing has been missed in all this aswell. What about the people that bought peds thru paypal, moneybookers, etc.? would they influence the equation? or would it not matter since the peds are still ingame and MA isnt gaining or losing money?
[/QUOTE]
youre absolutely right, i hadnt considered this. they would, of course, have to be considered in the equation, and ofc MA WOULD be able to come up with an accurate figure… i mean, how often does soemeone GIVE 500 (or whatever amount) peds to someone for free, or in trade for a broken fap5, you know?
a pleasant way for MA to bring in even MORE revenue. and besides that… why do you think it takes them months to make the withdraw? if it stayed money-on-paper in THEIR treasuries, id would take days, at the most weeks, to let costumers withdraw money in essentially any amounts…
