Loot Curve

Ok, I’m writing this, as I really see many unskilled people hunting high-end mobs, and then complaining on why they are having no returns.

I have made a drawing of what I believe to be a generic loot curve, for any mob, to represent it’s loot pool.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/3/6/4/1/LootCurve_386305.GIF

The y-axys represents the percentage of returns when hunting a certain mob.
The x-axys represents time.
The “x%” represents the maximum percentage you can have back, when hunting a certain mob.
The “y%” represents the minimum percentage you can have back, when hunting a certain mob.

Let’s compare two types of mobs:
“1” would be a low-end mob.
“2” would be a high-end mob.

The loot curve for “1”, would have a “x%” and a “y%” close to the 100%. Thus no matter when you decide to hunt that mob you will get very close to breaking even (considering you hunt efficiently and with the appropriate equipment for your skills). That’s without counting globals and HoFs. Those count as annomalies in low-end mobs. They are also much less frequent in low-end mobs because of that. The effect of globals and HoFs for the loot curve of mob “1”, is much bigger than for mob “2”.

When hunting mob “2”, both “x%” and “y%” would be farther away from the 100%. The bigger the cost to kill the mob, the farther they are from 100%. That’s what causes the “casino effect” on PE. You have to be lucky enough to be hunting the mob when it is on the profit period, or there is a considerable chance of losing a large amount of money. In high-end mobs, globals and hofs are a key-factor to breaking even, since the profit period is shorter, but the “x%” is higher. It is also more frequent to global and hof on high-end mobs, since the cost to kill them is higher, and thus their loot reward is proportional to the cost of killing it (or at least should be :wink: ). They also drop better items, which helps in getting higher loots. Better items don’t drop as often though, thus reinforcing the idea, that the profit period is thinner on “2” mobs.
Hunting “2”, rather than hunting “1” is much more of a gamble, since there’s a big chance of losses, but a small chance of much bigger rewards. That causes the large numbers of unskilled people complaining about loots when fighting mobs that are too strong for their skills. Also, the unskilled people that do get lucky hunting high-end mobs, usually think they are doing well, hunt said mob again and again, and end up losing more than what they gained in first place.

I’d rather hunt a weak mob over and over again, getting very close to breaking even (profitting or losing) all the time, hoping to hit a high-loot eventually, than hunting a high-end mob, losing frequantly fora slightly bigger chance of scoring high. Of course, the probability of scoring as high in a low-mob, as peopple usually do on high-end ones, is much lower, but that’s just how I do it myself :slight_smile: .

I hope this has helped some people understand why they are losing so much money :wink: .

P.S.: All of this is based on the fact that mobs have loot pools. If MA by any miracle managed to put a 100% random system in a machine, where loot has absolutely nothing to do with the mob you are hunting, then all of what I wrote is rubbish.

7 Likes

Wow. No replies! :eek:
Maybe I should give it a little bump… :wink:

Nice analysis. :dunce:
Now ppl will start convincing them selves that the LOSS PERIOD is just longer than they expected and MA will LMAO watching you! Sometimes, it may take u 400-1000PED ammo&decay to get out of your, so called, LOSS PERIOD…but MA simply has us :laugh: There is another theory on the forum (dont remember the author atm), about spawn packages, that seem more practical to me…maybe because i dont have a few KPEDs for hunting expenses, so I dont ‘TANK the market’, i just go to another place. I thinkg LOOT has something to do about where you are hunting. IMHO!

Nice idea but remember there are at least 25 servers running the world. By what you are saying, if there is a global or HoF and you are killing a mob then loot it right after you see the message cross the screen you would be on the downward side of the curve. This generally doesn’t happen. I admit I have gotten some good loots after seeing someone else HoF, but those times are far and few between. Also the concept would be to simple, during the course of say an hour hunting you could jot down the loots you got and at what times, take that data into Excel and come up with the formula to give you a time curve. Not likely to be done so easily. Remember PE is dynamic, so are the loots. Your suggestion would make the loots cycle based on an algorythm making it static.

Personally I think that every mob ingame has a loot pointer attached to it. The ammo you spend on killing said mob goes into that specific mobs loot. When you loot a mob you have a percentage chance of getting any loot off it, based on what that mob has for stored loot you get (stored loot) * % = loot given. It has been said that loot can be based off the gear you hunt with, if thats true hunting with big guns gives you more loot put into each mobs pool. Therefore you have a better chance of getting more back. This is just my opinion and have no way to prove or disprove it.

[QUOTE=Maddog]
There is another theory on the forum (dont remember the author atm), about spawn packages, that seem more practical to me.
[/QUOTE]

I wrote that, too. :wink:

[QUOTE=Spider]
Nice idea but remember there are at least 25 servers running the world. By what you are saying, if there is a global or HoF and you are killing a mob then loot it right after you see the message cross the screen you would be on the downward side of the curve. This generally doesn’t happen. I admit I have gotten some good loots after seeing someone else HoF, but those times are far and few between. Also the concept would be to simple, during the course of say an hour hunting you could jot down the loots you got and at what times, take that data into Excel and come up with the formula to give you a time curve. Not likely to be done so easily. Remember PE is dynamic, so are the loots. Your suggestion would make the loots cycle based on an algorythm making it static.
[/QUOTE]

You misinterpreted the curve. The curve is just a very simplified form of what the one used by MA should be like. There are also many other factors that affect her.
When the curve is on the loss period, it doesn’t mean everbody hunting that mob is going to lose that certain percentage when hunting it. It shows the average of what everyone hunting that said mob is getting.
If it is on the loss period, it is still possible for someone to get an uber HoF, but most other people hunting that mob would be having a bad loot. On the other hand, when on the top of the profit period, and somebody gets a hof, doesn’t mean that it now will instantly go back downwards. It will surely only drop again after it has given several globals and hofs, and stillt he drop wouldn’t be too fast. You would still get very nice loots from said mob, even after the curve has reached “x%”. But once again, that’s the average return percentage said mob is giving. It would still be possible to have money losses even on the profit period, as well as profits on the loss period.

[QUOTE=Huskie]
I wrote that, too. :wink:

[/QUOTE]

Respect on that :smiley:
I noticed a big difference in loot, when a changed to rascal and started using Mar Lighter Davidov in addition to Amped Opalo. The frequency might not have differed that much, but the total value of the idividual loot has gone up…however recent week was absolutely mess regarding how MA was giving the loots…guess they have no sense about Christmast :frowning:
Cant even break-even on ammo, not mentioning weapon and armor decay.

Well, this loot curve of yours may explain some of ppl’s losses, but is there a way to limit 'em?

I already know I am loosing, and when I do so, I usually loose whatever I do, mining and crafting included…

My opinion is that loosing/profiting is tied to the avatar in a way I cannot explain…

But I liked the graph and the ideeas you presented, so +rep from me;)

[QUOTE=Sharyn]
Well, this loot curve of yours may explain some of ppl’s losses, but is there a way to limit 'em?

I already know I am loosing, and when I do so, I usually loose whatever I do, mining and crafting included…

My opinion is that loosing/profiting is tied to the avatar in a way I cannot explain…

But I liked the graph and the ideeas you presented, so +rep from me;)
[/QUOTE]

True. As I said in the post above, I am almost sure that there are many other factors that influence the loot curve, like having your own avatar influence it. I also believe that if the avatar has or not ever deposited, might influence it, for example. But those are just theories. Theories would be a way to explain the many factors that change the loot curve. I strongly believe there is a loot curve, because it is also a very easy way for MA to control their own income. They would get for example an X amount of PEDs on the loss period and give back X-5% back in the profit period. Not too hard to do that, really.

Oh, and thx for the +rep :cool:

Im not gonna start talking about my own wiew on it all… which has made med profit quite a sum in this game… but everybody hates it and thinks im a jerk and bla bla bla for saying it =P so im just gonna leave it :smiley:

but what you are saying sounds pretty smart yes :slight_smile: didnt understand it 100% but id say thats one of the smartest theorys ive heard :slight_smile:
gratz or uhm something :wink:

[QUOTE=Cindywood]
Im not gonna start talking about my own wiew on it all… which has made med profit quite a sum in this game… but everybody hates it and thinks im a jerk and bla bla bla for saying it =P so im just gonna leave it :smiley:

but what you are saying sounds pretty smart yes :slight_smile: didnt understand it 100% but id say thats one of the smartest theorys ive heard :slight_smile:
gratz or uhm something :wink:
[/QUOTE]

Thanks, but it is not really a theory. As long as the loot is not 100% random, which I wholeheartedly disbelieve, there has to be a loot curve, because if it isn’t random, it follows a pattern, and if it follows a pattern, it is possible to draw a curve from it :wink: . Might not be how I described it here, bu the fact that there is one, is almost certain.

oh yes there is a curve, and no the loots aint totally random.
but that curve isnt the way my curve is and most likely not the way others curve is and ah.. u get the deal :wink: thats why I called it a theory; a theory that the curve is like that :slight_smile:

and everything I said right now Is just my personal opinion kk ppl?

[QUOTE=Cindywood]
Im not gonna start talking about my own wiew on it all… which has made med profit quite a sum in this game… but everybody hates it and thinks im a jerk and bla bla bla for saying it =P so im just gonna leave it :smiley:

but what you are saying sounds pretty smart yes :slight_smile: didnt understand it 100% but id say thats one of the smartest theorys ive heard :slight_smile:
gratz or uhm something :wink:
[/QUOTE]

hmmmm… I would like to hear it p/m me with it … if you dont want to post it

[QUOTE=moonear]
hmmmm… I would like to hear it p/m me with it … if you dont want to post it
[/QUOTE]

Sorry but ive tried to explain it a billion times allready… decided not to do it again.
pretty hard to learn though, ive only ever taught 3 ppl + myself my way… and those I was sitting behind when playing for a few weeks =S
my way to profit is not a magical way which makes u profit like “tada”
its maybe 50% about how I think the loot works and 50% on how to aim and how to know were the next mob will spawn and yeah all that basic stuff :wink:
how to aim might sound silly but really.. when u watch some ppl play who thinks they are so great they really suck at it =S

If you ever see me in-game.. and if you ask kindly I might try to explain the loot part to you.. but right now im dead sick of even trying -.-

edit: ok ok changed my mind, have sent u a pm. Eather you will laugh at me like hell and neg rep me for the rest of my life, or you will do something else =P

Cindywood spoketh Truth. Also, I suggest you change “time” in your
curve to “cumulated costs” (ammo or repairs ahead or both), and
make it partly individual partly coupled to who was hunting in the area
and how they were hunting. Also crossing the server border probably
uncouples you from the binding to the other hunters’ history.

Something can be found if you do all in your might to avoid good loots.
What do you exactly have to do? (I am a master in that research :tongue2: )

Well I have played now for like 10 months and I’m seeing way more good loots now. Ofcourse no where near breaking even-but I noticed one major thing!

Since then I have learned to hunt smarter :wise: .

Rarely now do I the ghost and big weapons for some redneck like carnage.

I still use my rascal and maybe even a Mad 4 and valor for back up-but my main weapons are still a 1x0 and a davidov. Maybe I’m to cheap to live the life of ammo eating weapons but I don’t see a point in it yet. Maybe after I get like 4k in rifle I might move up.

The great thing about this game is you can pace yourself.

Your theory seems to correct to me, except its overall for my character, not just mobs.

I’ll give you an example…

On October 7th-11th I globalled 2 times over four days: two en, one ore, totalling 439 ped.

On October 24th I globalled 3 times over one day: two en, one ore, totalling 330 ped.

On December 23-24th I globalled 5 times over two days: one ore, one robot ship, one hunting, two crafting, totalling 459 ped.

Inbetween these periods of repeated globalling I get an occational global, but they are weeks inbetween them, if at all. Also, immediately after the period, I have bad loots in all areas for a day or three.

This is just the trend I’ve noticed.

Its not as easy as this. The pic below should give an idea how it really works :

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/7/6/0/lootcalc.JPG

3 Likes

Aaaaahhh!!
I get it now!!

+rep for McCormick!! :rolleyes:

Huskie,
I bet you play the nickel slots :wink:

[QUOTE=McCormick]
Its not as easy as this. The pic below should give an idea how it really works :

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/7/6/0/lootcalc.JPG
[/QUOTE]

Hmm, I studied that for some minures, but I think it needs some corrections…
I think there’s also a typo in the fifth formula.

[QUOTE=Daytone]
Huskie,
I bet you play the nickel slots
[/QUOTE]

Why? :confused: