Intermediate weaponry

Entropia Universe Professions Hunting
1

This is something I’ve been wondering about for some time - why are there only two kinds of weapons; TT weapons, and non-TT weapons?

All the TT weapons have skill bonuses etc, and are easy to “max out” and “use efficiently” (by which I mean 10/10 hit and 10/10 critical hit ability, with maximum damage interval) and that’s fair enough, but they are obviously very restricted in how useful they are. I’m not sure I’d fancy tackling an Armax Bull Guardian with an Opalo or TT Enblade.

The problem is that once you leave the TT weapons, there are no intermediary weapons to move on to. You have the same hit ability and relative damage interval whether you’re using a Jester D1 or a Justifier MkII, and to me that seems a bit nuts. The two guns are a world apart, but someone with 3k rifle can’t use a MkII any better than they can a puny D1…

Using myself as an example, I have 4,400 LB and I’m no more proficient with a 1x0 Axe than I am with my Katsuichi Determination (2.5/10 & 5.0/10 on both IIRC).

Am I the only one that thinks different “classes” of weapons should be made? So, you can go from a TT weapons (Class 1) to Class 2 weapons (say, 1x0 axes, Punisher Mk1 etc), and once you’ve skilled with them you can move to Class 3 weapons (2-3x0 axe, Kat. Honor, Justy MkII), and then to Class 4 (AS117, Kat. Determination, Maddox IV etc) and so on, working up to the real uber guns (Imk2, Adj mini sweeper, MM and so on). To me that makes perfect sense, as it’s illogical that you can have high skill levels but still be completely inefficient with very feeble weapons.

A system like this would truly mean that you could use weapons best suited to your skill levels. I love melee-hunting, but I don’t want to have to use a TT enblade just to be efficient at it. It would also make it possible to aim for sensible goals - after all, it would be a nice feeling to see a message come up “You are now experienced enough to use Class 5 melee weapons” and then run to auction to see what you could now have fun with.

Just a thought, but I don’t think I’m too crazy in thinking like this… :wink:

2 Likes
2

I have been wondering exactly the same thing recently.

I was trying to work out how many more LB skills I’d need until I can start improving the use of my determination, but then I realised I’m apparently just as bad with axes and the like.

(~3k LB)

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The limited weapons do that to some extent, but they are limited which is a pain if the markup is high.

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[QUOTE=Sonya Heart]
The limited weapons do that to some extent, but they are limited which is a pain if the markup is high.
[/QUOTE]

And limited blades (of the decent, Nano Katana/Nano Dai-Katana type) are rarer than rocking horse sh*t… I’d love to be able to hunt with one of them but I’ve seen one full TT specimen for sale (at an exorbitant price :frowning: ) in the couple of weeks I’ve been trying to find one.

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this has been discussed b4, and the only thing we can think is… more money for MA! less efficiency means you burn more ammo and decay more. it doesnt make sense for it to be this way. the virtual universe only mimics life if its profitable i think :wink:

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[QUOTE=Titus Wolf]
the only thing we can think is… more money for MA! less efficiency means you burn more ammo and decay more.
[/QUOTE]

yep. but then why introduce the TT weapons that unbalance at the bottom end. and screw the crafters in the process. crap. i get up set by this one and try to ignore/forget about it so i can enjoy myself. you have to either skill for years (or at least thousands of hours) to be able to use weapons or stick to hunting low-middle mobs with the opalo. Thats not “balanced”. skills should affect weapon ability in a less exponential curve.

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after all, it would be a nice feeling to see a message come up “You are now experienced enough to use Class 5 melee weapons” and then run to auction to see what you could now have fun with.

here here - agree with u totaly
i just started a thread ‘use equip that suits ur skill lvl’ to try and find out that sort of stuff , ur idea would be a great way for ppl to find out when they r good enough to use bigger stuff :slight_smile:

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i’m a n00b :o

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Cougar, are you implying that the hit+critical hit ability is different for each weapon?

If so, then please don’t think I’m being rude or imflammatory but I really don’t think that’s correct…

My stats on the Kat. Determination are 2.4/10 and 4.9/10. I use it daily, primarily when tackling tougher mobs. My stats on the 2x0 axe are 2.4/10 and 4.9/10. I use it very rarely, maybe twice a week.

My stats on the Kat. Pride are 2.4/10 and 4.9/10. I have never used one, but simply checked my stats on it in auction.

If I’m missing something in your post then I apologise, but skills in one weapon class (that is heavy melee, laser rifle, blp handgun etc) definitely seem to carry between individual weapons. If they didn’t, I would have zero ability with the Pride.

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[QUOTE=Miller]
Cougar, are you implying that the hit+critical hit ability is different for each weapon?
[/QUOTE]

I can confirm that this is the case. even with my poor HG skills i have better stats for laser pistols than for BLP pistols, presumably due to far higher LWT skills than BlpWT

11

[QUOTE=aridash]
I can confirm that this is the case. even with my poor HG skills i have better stats for laser pistols than for BLP pistols, presumably due to far higher LWT skills than BlpWT
[/QUOTE]

Yep, which is why I said:

[QUOTE=Me]
If I’m missing something in your post then I apologise, but skills in one weapon class (that is heavy melee, laser rifle, blp handgun etc) definitely seem to carry between individual weapons. If they didn’t, I would have zero ability with the Pride.
[/QUOTE]

My stats across heavy melee weapons are the same, my stats across light melee weapons are the same, my stats between BLP and Laser weapons are different as they have different skills attached to them (ie, LWT and BLP Tech)

12

I have exactly the same issue. I used Kat Pride, axe 1.0 & 2.0 and have exactly the same abilities on all of them, certainly using Longblades I can confirm that it doesn’t seem to matter what the weapon level is; apart from the TT or (L) weapons your stats are the same for all.

Which is frankly a terrible system…

Edain

13

Great post :slight_smile:

this is liked the 3rd good post I seen from you today :slight_smile:

But I cant give +rep yet…

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/reputation.php?p=271173

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[QUOTE=Cougar]
That is because skills don’t pass from weapon to weapon, you have to skill on each weapon to get good results with it.

I have nice stats on the opalo, but if i start using the Jester D1 i would have to start again from the beginning.

About the weapons “suited to your skill level”, well i think that it means that you will have a lot harder work to get nice stats on it if you start right away on a top level weapon, so the best suited to your skills the weapon is, the faster you become more proeficient with it. And have less losses in the long run.

There are another alternatives, and you can even give smaller steps if you wish. You can even skill up to 10k skills in laser with the Opalo and them move to the Imp MKII. And you can’t forget that you also have BLP.

You might say that after i max out the opalo i should jump to the mkII so i get nice stats on it earlier. Well i think i would do that, but considering that i would be less eficient with it for a long time the costs would be bigger.

Ofc that my opinion bases on eficient hunting and you can’t go hunt the big mobs so soon.

I think the main problem here is that you must start from scratch when moving to another weapon. But by what i have seen to the moment there is no such problem in the other areas of activity, only in ranged and melee hunting. :dunno:
.
[/QUOTE]

Woah what’s going on here? This is completely wrong, sorry. I remember asking the same question after i started when i was having trouble making head or tails of the ability with weapons. As has been mentioned here, your ability with any weapon of the same type (type meaning weapons within a professional standing eg laser sniper weapons, swordsman weapons, etc) will be the same regardless of the level of the weapon except in the case of weapons with SLB (skills learning bonus), which includes the tt weapons and all new weapons => (the limited ones). On those weapons you reach a skill level where you have the SLB, and when you max out the weapon you get max stats on that weapon. Note that maxing a SLB weapon is due to general skills, not skills specific to the weapon. For example, i have no more SLB (“not anymore”) in damage in level 1 melee limited weapons (the powerfist, shortblade, longblade, etc) even though i’ve never used some of them, because my overall skills in inflict melee damage and etc are higher than the level needed to max that ability.

Another example: skilling on the Jester D-1 gives you general laser sniper skills and ability, not skill specific to the Jester D-1. The problem is that the Jester, being an “old” weapon, doesn’t have a SLB and you will not be effective with it any sooner than the most uber of laser sniper weapons.

i wrote a bit about the same issue you’re talking about here just now. The good news is that all new weapons being added have SLB and therefore are maxed at lower skill levels. The bad news (well some would say it’s bad news) is that they are all limited.

15

:scratch: I see that i am wrong there. :umn:

I just need clarify some things, that are confusing me:

The SLB makes me get more skills faster, but them is the SLB that makes me have nice skills on the opalo?

If i started skilling on a jester D1 that doesn’t have the SLB and if i have skilled to the point where i am, i would have the same stats on the opalo as i have right now?

Yesterday i looted an EP-11 and curious i looked at the stats, this pistol doesn’t have a slb but while in the other rifles except the opalo i have 0.1 hit and 1.2 crit, in this pistol my skills were above that, as much as i understand, that is due to my lwt. But still why do my skill levels have such influence in the stats i have in this pistol and don’t seem to matter in the jester?

:confused:

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[QUOTE=Cougar]
:scratch: I see that i am wrong there. :umn:

I just need clarify some things, that are confusing me:

The SLB makes me get more skills faster, but them is the SLB that makes me have nice skills on the opalo?

If i started skilling on a jester D1 that doesn’t have the SLB and if i have skilled to the point where i am, i would have the same stats on the opalo as i have right now?

Yesterday i looted an EP-11 and curious i looked at the stats, this pistol doesn’t have a slb but while in the other rifles except the opalo i have 0.1 hit and 1.2 crit, in this pistol my skills were above that, as much as i understand, that is due to my lwt. But still why do my skill levels have such influence in the stats i have in this pistol and don’t seem to matter in the jester?

:confused:
[/QUOTE]

Laser sniper and laser pistoleer are two different professions, and two different groups of weapons. I have skilled mostly with the m2100 (the tt pistol or “wallgun” :laugh: ), so my hit ability with laser pistols is somewhere above 2, while my hit ability with laser rifles and carbines is less than 2. My hit ability with blp rifles would be even lower still because i have no blp weapons tech but lots of laser weapons tech. Note that your hit ability with a non-SLB weapon is just your professional standing in the area of that weapon (your average skills for laser sniping, in the case of laser sniper) divided by 1000. The wiki has a list of which professional standing corresponds with which average skills. A qualified laser sniper will have a hit ability of 1.0 with laser sniper weapons (laser rifles and carbines).

Any weapon with a SLB has three basic ranges of skills:
1- “Not yet” – your skills aren’t high enough to even start to effectively use the weapon
2- “Yes” – you have a learning bonus and on the attribute in question (aim or damage)
3- “Not anymore” – having maxed out the stats for that attribute, you no longer get the bonus. However, having maxed stat for a weapon lets you use it as effectively as is possible. That’s why a maxed tt longsword is significantly more efficient for people with less than (and even more than) 1k longblade than an axe 1x0, even though the axe 1x0 has better maximum economy. You don’t get maximum economy (well, 3/4 of it, which is the average maxed economy) until you have maxed the stats on the axe 1x0, which doesn’t happen until very high skills. Calculating your actual efficiency with non-maxed weapons isn’t hard, and is a good idea when deciding on the most efficient way to hunt.

17

So the diference between weapons resumes to slb and non-slb, where all non-slb have the same stats, that are linked to the prof standing?

[QUOTE=Doer]
Laser sniper and laser pistoleer are two different professions, and two different groups of weapons. I have skilled mostly with the m2100 (the tt pistol or “wallgun” :laugh: ), so my hit ability with laser pistols is somewhere above 2, while my hit ability with laser rifles and carbines is less than 2.
[/QUOTE]

I never touched a pistol and still i have better stats with the EP-11 than with the jester. :confused:

18

[QUOTE=Cougar]
I never touched a pistol and still i have better stats with the EP-11 than with the jester. :confused:
[/QUOTE]

the jester is a carbine (rifle skill) and the ep-11 is a pistol (handgun skill).

for weapons which share the same skill tree elements, the hit ability and critical hit numbers are the same. thus, for all BLP technology pistols you have the same numbers. for all laser technology rifles, you have the same numbers.

this works the same for melee weapons, except you have to consider different skills. heavy melee weapons verses light melee weapons and the specific type of weapon (longblade, shortblade, [i]club/i, powerfist, or whip).

*someone told me that clubs were light melee weapons. I’ve never tried one, so I don’t know. the icon indicates a two handed weapon which should be in the heavy class. the lack of more than one heavy melee weapon (longblades) seems a little lop-sided. if they are really light then it wouldn’t surprise me if some MA guy entered the wrong configuration parameter. it’s not like this hasn’t happended before - like the DOAs which obviously were suppose to be handguns.

19

[QUOTE=Cougar]

I never touched a pistol and still i have better stats with the EP-11 than with the jester. :confused:
[/QUOTE]

That’s strange. Either you made a mistake, or the pistol is bugged. Did you check them both at the same time? What hit ability do you have with the pistol compared to the Jester?

20

Ive seen many ppl ask this question including many of my disciples…

What you have to do is look back to the time before the Opalo & (L) items where all weapons of a certain type would give you the same stats. What MA have done is make the TT weps & (L) items so you can max them out at certain skill levels, but as with many things in the universe the old items remain the same as before.

So back to the initial question.. where are the intermediate weapons? Well they are the (L) items. The problem for most is ofcourse the high markup on many of these. This is due to the speed at which MA release the bp’s (or imo) the release of these is linked to the skill levels of the crafters & the availability of the resourses required to make the weapons.