I dont agree with you people. I think resellers are an important part of the economy. Just like in the real world, they increase the availability of a product. They make it possible for me to actualy get some profit for the Jesters D1 that i craft. I sell a whole bunch of them to a reseller and its much better than tt.
Plus im not in the mood all day to stand around the market to advertise certains stuff. So i have a few reseller in FriendsList, and its very easy way of despoosing of stuff.
And even if you don`t like it, you have to admit that trading is the only viable way to make some money ingame and now you ppl wanna spoil that too. :wise:
Not good :tapfinger
[QUOTE=Mikass]
I dont agree with you people. I think resellers are an important part of the economy. Just like in the real world, they increase the availability of a product. They make it possible for me to actualy get some profit for the Jesters D1 that i craft. I sell a whole bunch of them to a reseller and its much better than tt.
Plus im not in the mood all day to stand around the market to advertise certains stuff. So i have a few reseller in FriendsList, and its very easy way of despoosing of stuff.
And even if you don`t like it, you have to admit that trading is the only viable way to make some money ingame and now you ppl wanna spoil that too. :wise:
Not good :tapfinger
[/QUOTE]
ONly thing is alot of resellers liek to take advantage of people that are new to the gameā¦ I donāt respect this at all and i consider it swindling. I think if anything there should be a way to better inform some of those that are new to the game.
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in a way i agree, resellers must be stopped. in an other way i disagree.
most of the time, i get a new gun after like, 2 weeks. because im not satisfied with the last one. (my mk4 is sticking with me for over 2 month now tho). i want to sell it fast, without a loss. or maybe a loss of 20 ped, but i dont care about 20 ped. but i do care if i buy something this week, use it a bit, dont like it, sell it after 2 weeks and have to pay a freaking FEE! that, is someting i dont like (and no, im not a reseller)
I dont agree with your ideas at all.
Trading is such an important part of PE whether ppl like it or not. Trading must be done in a free market because however you want to start restricting it there will always be parts of it someone will not like. And with each restriction there will be a workaround that will appear just as bad or worse than the original perceived problem.
All I can say is if you dont like resellers than dont buy from them. Use the streets for trade (if you have the patience for it) or use the auctions and take your chances there. But certainly donāt waste your time (and anger) at being annoyed with what is a fact of life within PE. My opinion anyway 
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First of all, we are talking about bad resellers. Let aside reseller of uber items, I donāt care about them. Letās talk about resellers of clothes or medium items. So, when did those items came to this value?
mk2: tt+80
katsuchi valor: tt+60
fap-50: tt+30
katsuchi honor: tt+150
Of course, if u watch the acutions, there are more than one seller. Which is the mechanism? A stinky reseller bought 2 mk2 back in time at tt+30 and then posted them 1 or 2 weeks ago at tt+50. Them werenāt bought. He reposted at tt+80. Other usual players, who, here on forum, would whine about resellers, saw the prices and said āwtf, i am not stupid, I put at same priceā. There u go.
That is NOT request and demand. If u want to see the actual demand, post the item at tt opening bid and let it go for 7 days. I saw pieces of ghoul armors auctioned like that and went to their prices, tt+3-500.
Resellers are not bad, as long as they have just a bat of morale.
The problem is the ones having several of one item in storage, just waiting for the prices to go up becourse no more items are being looted (And canāt be found cheaper since he/she has a great deal of the ones out there in his/her storage)
Then the next problem comes in, someone with way to much RL money says, fuckit, I donāt care about the price, I just want it! And he then pays lets say 65K peds for an Imp Fap and 75K for Imp Mk II, now what would the market price be now ?
Imagin this happening a few times (And I know it has) where will the prices go
Iām not saying that prices should be so that everyone can have Imp this and mod that, just saying that MA should do something about the ones having several of one thing in storage (IE: Imp faps) Or simply start dropping them some more.
[QUOTE=Kerham]
First of all, we are talking about bad resellers. Let aside reseller of uber items, I donāt care about them. Letās talk about resellers of clothes or medium items. So, when did those items came to this value?
[/QUOTE]
Well if you donāt care about the resellers pushing the prices on uber items that I would like to get up with several thousand peds, then why should I care about the resellers of the items where the difference is 20-30 ped ?
When it comes to resellers of low to mid lvl items, then resellers are good, they provide an easy access to alot of items (Have a few on FL, and if I need soemthing I have it within minutes most of the time)
---------- Small story about mid lvl item resale ----------
Yesterday someone asked me if I was interested in a RepAxe 5x0 for 100ped under market value - Sure, so I offered her TT + 125 (Which to my knowledge is about 100 ped under market value)
But then Iām told that market value is TT+500, which is pretty new to me, so think Iāll just stick to my ceb-10 then
Iām not a big fan of SIBUKās idea. I was thinking about it myself, but quickly realised how 1) it could be avoided by resellers 2) it would put significant constraints on economy.
OK, hereās some other thoughts. There were a lot of discussions regarding resellers and their impact PE economy lately. No comments from Marco. It might or it might not mean itās not MAās first priority, but it surely means we cannot rely on the fact that MA would change something in an observable future, solving the market manipulation problem.
What if we try to do something from the other side? I remember Aziphirael had a great post recently about the way SMA is doing business (making money on a steady low-margin sales, other than gambling/monopolizing market). But SMA is a business, therefore they have their own ways to organize the supplier chains etc. What about the majority of people who just want to have a flexible market (can always buy and sell) with acceptable prices?
For example, letās at the moment Iām doing some mining and have some maybe 7k ped worth ores/em in storage, which Iām ready to sell for acceptable market price (no crazy margins), but Iād rather sell it to some crafter, other than putting it on the auction and watching some resellers buying out and relisting it. Of course, I know some crafters directly, but itās not always the case they are ready to buy. I donāt know many people who are ready to sell either. I would not position my actions here as a business, therefore I wouldnāt like to spend time on building supplier/comsumer chain, Iād rather just want to sell my stuff quickly and to be sure my sales arenāt driving the prices up (in other words Iād like to know whom Iām selling to).
What if players created some sort of union, letās say Fair Trade Association, which would consist of traders, suppliers and consumers, agreed to follow certain rules (common sense rules basically, e.g. not to rip off people ). Some ideas about how FTA would work can be taken from RL organizations, e.g. Fair Trade and even WTO:
http://www.fairtrade.net
http://www.fairtrade.org.uk
http://www.wto.org
Some well-known and respectable avatar could be elected as a president of FTA (e.g. Aziphirael). And, for instance, FTA membership/trading rules would look like:
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Only an avatar who played for more than 6 months can join. - no second/third/fourth avatars
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List of members can be easily accessed via Web, so itād be possible to check promptly whether certain avatar is in FTA or not. - easy to find out who is who on the street, w/o wasting time bargaining.
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Members form some sort of committee or council (or use direct voting) to agree on pricing policies.
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FTA committee (or some other form of authority, see above) agree on ārecommendedā prices for certain commodities (not necessarily all the commodities) - some resources, e.g. belkar, lyst, oil can be priced using MTP markup, as supply and demand are large enough. On the other hand, uber items market is a natural monopoly in some cases. But for the resources, which are unnaturally monopolized (ores, enmatters etc), FTA could follow the ideas from RL Fair Trade: a recommended price set up, and for instance a premium for bulk sales, etc.
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Members can buy resources w/o any restrictions from members/non-members. - if you have a good deal, thatās fair enough. If you need resources FTA members donāt sell, you are free to buy it at any price you are happy with.
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Members can sell resources letās say within Ā±40% margin of the ārecommendedā price (could be different margin for different sorts of tradable resources) - no crazy margins allowed, but the boundaries are big enough to allow competition.
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If the recommended price is questioned by some members, an open dispute can be arranged.
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If average selling price exceeds Ā±30% of the recommended price, it should be reviewed.
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Members can trade with non-members, but following FTA price recommendations (above) - no rip-off is allowed, inside or outside FTA.
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If some member is noticed selling/reselling resources violating FTA trading policies, he/she is expelled from FTA for 3 months. The third violation causes permanent ban on trading with FTA.
What do you think? This idea would work (and have an impact on the market) only if thereās enough people who support it. It might sound a little bit restrictive, but in the end the main idea is just to provide an ability to stick a virtual badge on your avatar if you are willing to do fair trading in PE and to let similar sort of people know each other, outside soc boundaries.
Just my :twocents:
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[QUOTE=ultimababe]
[size=7]+REP[/size] to you Sibuk!!! I am utterly pissed off with resellers ingameā¦ the economy is a f*cking JOKE!
[/QUOTE]
I totally agree, all in all an excellent idea.
I would however restrict the whole thing to auction only, not trading on the street.
If an item was bought from the auction it canāt be put on auction again for 1 or 2 months or so - it should be possible though to put stuff on auction that was bought on the streets (for people who buy 1 or 2 molisk tooth and stuff and then put bulks of 100s on the auction) and also to sell/trade stuff bought in the auction in normal PvP trade (for people buying stuff for friends, disciples and so on).
Yes Iām tired off it also!!
Some days ago I saw a grey armchair just got out in auction at only 18 peds or soā¦ and since I neede one I thougth I buy it, when I tried doing it it was already bougth out. 1 min later the exact same armchair was out in auction again at the double price (I know its the exact same one, could tell from the TT value)
And this is a small item amongst middle , uber whatever items!
Ofc some ppl like trading and making good deals, and I like selling to earn some when Iām upgrading my gear.
But I think most off the ppl āweā are upset with is not selling one āgrey armchairā they are selling 20 off them in auction at the exact same price and if you put your up to a little better price be sure they will buy it and put it out at a higher price.
This is hurting the comunity bad!!!
We must be better to comunicate about who needs what and sell directly to that person.
And yes a list could be good so I know where I can sell my stuff to crafters!
Lady T
I can see this in two ways.
The reseller is buying stuff to make a profit and he is bumping up prices on items that other players may desperately want, but are not willing to pay over the odds due to the reseller. THis is no different than it is in the Real Life with Real Auctions. There will always be resellers. It is what are you prepared to pay for an item.
Ok, some resellers are unscrupulous and are ripping off noobs, but then that is for noobs to find out for themselves in most cases as to what prices for items are worth and do a bit of research first into how the game works, and what items are and how much they are potentially worth. Or, they need a very good Mentor who will help them along to finding out that there are good players in the game that will help them. But we can say the same thing about Mentors. THere are some very bad mentors out there who are just sitting on Noobs, not helping them at all, and waiting for there free Mentor item. If anything, this is way worse than resellers.
Then there is the other side of the coin. Those items that the reseller is pushing up in price, you just happen to loot several of them, and in return you place them on auction and get double or more in value due to the reseller bumping up prices. Now, how can you complain about that.
Itās all bad until you make a profit out of a bad situation.
I donāt always like the fact there are items I am after, and they are bid on drastically and way overpriced, but I just wonāt buy those items. Itās called delayed gratification.
I still have Vigi GLoves because i think Nem Gloves are over priced. Now that the new armor changes have occured, Iām not affected as badly by the Vigi Gloves getting hit once in a while and causing me more dmg than if i was hit wearing Nem gloves. So, in effect, I have saved Ped there.
Itās all swings and roundabouts. Sometimes people will win and other times people will lose.
Two words: Lending System!
I have burned my avyās paws on a weapon or two over time just to check it out myself.
If MA introduced a lending system your idea would be ok, since I would hate to be stuck with e.g. a Kat. Determination for 6 months before I could turn it into peds again to buy myself a shiny new Nano Dai Katana.
Another obstacle that a lending system would overcome if your idea was implemented: My girlfriend and I share some weapons from time to time. If I could set the properties at āno leaseā and āreturn within xx timeā within a lending system I would have no worries about your idea.
/Cheers
LoL People ā¦Resellers is filling the Auc up and so on and if they didnt exist the rich ppl would have tons of stuff that they āMightā need sometime and Resellers isnt scamming anyone they just try to make money on other ppls wealth and look at the irl world ā¦Do you ppl think stocktraders are so bad people? i guess Resellers and trading is miss judge but rich ppl that cant make trades and as an answer to that item list you got should be dropped more ruins the game ā¦do you think snables should dropp mod fapp each time and combibo dropped full eon ..thats whats makes the game good ā¦the rare items should stay rare and hard to find and traders just makes them buyable
okey, maybe resellers are badā¦
but there are some ppl that are just as badā¦ ubersā¦
some ppl having 2 sets of shadow, 1 angel, 1 eon and one supremacy.. and those having one imp,mod,adj fapā¦ and those having 2 mm and 1 imk2.
So in the end, you have ubers stocking items to keep price up and you have reseellers trying to make few pedsā¦ I know the ubers where here first, but does that meen us new ppl dont are allowed to make few peds :wise:
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Resellers arent helping the price of goods in auction,id like to buy a nice rifle or half-decent armour at a fair price as much as the next guy & i bet ME would be quite cheaper too. But lets face it MA arent going to do anything about it.
On the topic of resellers, I asked support about people who are using auction to resell TT items & weapons from the āweapon traderā in order to gain peds from unwary newcomers who didnt know better, theyre answer was
āPE has a free market, its part of the gameā :rolleyes:
my idea to boldy state in info window āThis is a trade terminal itemā wasnt even commented upon :mad:
personally i think TT items should be non-tradeable incl TT clothes, that would pee on a few peoples bonfires 
The Revolution must begin
Elisa,
your idea would help stablize the markets of Calypso.
The biggest problem we face as we play this game is each other. We get pissed because resellers are have monopolized the market. We are so angry that we put our items on the market for a little less then what they are selling so they buy us out.
This creates a trend of inflation and we have very few weapons to combat this inflation. We also give into our anger and greed and with this the resellers divide us.
I know this is cliched, but together we stand, divided we fall.
We should make a organization such as the one elisa suggested and embargo the reseller we deem to have outrageous prices.
We need this before the new flood of players from the asian market.
This is the only weapon we have lets use it.
When some of you say that traders and resellers are not helping things, you are only looking at it from a purchasing point of view. If the people who want a specific item are willing to pay a higher price, itās the traders and resellers who discover what the price ceiling is by experimenting with pricing.
They risk thier 1 ped in auction with higher prices, taking a chance that someone will buy at the higher price therefore setting a new top price standard and improving the top price that hunters (they get the widest variety of items from loot), miners and crafters can get for the loot they recieve during thier activites.
The large amounts of buying, selling and reselling also provide a large amount of economic data that can be used to help establish pricing norms ie. changes in the game have a smaller impact because there is more competition and understanding of the market. If mindark goes and does something big in changing any activity, those resellers and traders are the ones taking the biggest risks because they keep the inventory and therefore take the losses when a new VU nerfs something, rather then your avg hunter or miner taking the hit.
I am a mind essence refiner and I have to track price points for sweat, nexus and mind essence, as well as keep track of how many other people i see advertising for buying and selling sweat, make deals with people who hit big nexus hofs (Move 10K - 25K per day and get a better then auction price), make deals with bigtime mind essence users to give them better then auction pricing on large amounts (10K+) of mind essence, and keep the noobs happy with the highest sweat pricing i can give so that rather then finding someone to buy on the street, they actually msg me to let me know they are ready to sell and ask where to find me.
I do not actively re-sell, but if I see mind essence at 50% below market, you can be damn sure iāll scoop it up and re-sell it as part of my large batches, not because i want to elevate the pricing, but because i want that profit potential when I know the value is higher then the seller is asking.
Donāt be so quick to attack an essential part of this economy unless you fully understand the ramifications of imposing restrictions on these activites. I come to this with some experience, for I live in the biggest free economy in the world =).
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[QUOTE=cyco animal]
personally i think TT items should be non-tradeable incl TT clothes, that would pee on a few peoples bonfires
[/QUOTE]
It would also mean you wouldnāt be able to give anyone the items either :duh:
cos you have to trade with someone to give an item to another avi
Trading is part of the game we all gonna have to live with it :wise:
Why not have info on the item so people can see its history of being on auction and how recently and all that.
if you see a guy trying to sell u something that was just on auction 1 day ago.. ur gonna know that its either not a good item or its a reseller.
item info is the way to go. if thats possible.
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[QUOTE=Akadian]
if you see a guy trying to sell u something that was just on auction 1 day ago.. ur gonna know that its either not a good item or its a reseller.
[/QUOTE]
Ummm no youāre not. :rolleyes: It may just have been overpriced and not sold or someone may just have bought a better item and now want to sell the one they got (even though they only bought it yesterday hey they may have got a HOF :laugh: ) or someone may just be low on peds and be forced to now sell an item that was bought yesterday. In fact there are 101 reasons for this to happen ā¦ not just ānot a good itemā or āa resellerā
Sorry, but the more you try to regulate the more silly the rules are gonna get