Behold the Omegaton CraftMeister Mk. I - The future of Crafting!

Planet Specific Discussions Planet Calypso
21

I haven’t got a problem with the machines themselves needing to be constructed. It’s the potential mission chain MA makes us take, plus possibly not disclosing the requirements, nor the efficiency (ranges?) of the machines beforehand/ at the beginning.

Some current upgrade missions do not tell you in advance, some tell you the the current stage and the next stage, and some, such as other pp armour upgrades, tell you the full mats list, but people will still have to make decisions on likely mus in the future if they take the mission path gradually. Plot developments do not fall into the good disclosure catagory, and any info from players may be out of date as well, given that some requirements (for other pp missions) have been changed over time.

I don’t mean that any levels may be lost when sold, I mean the pathway anybody initially needs to take may be convoluted and draw people into unhappy partial progress. I understand that not everything is lost if you decide to sell and somebody buys, but this may not be like tiered items or pet levels. It may look like the dead end is just a lot further down the track than with land plots now… look at the functionality of stables, for example, and that didn’t even involve a mission chain, just bidding risk when they were introduced.

22

So I was thinking about level requirements and upgrades.

This is the first one of such machines so it’s really basic, nothing too fancy about it.

I think maybe we could just keep it simple for the first one such as:

First BP slot is unlocked for everyone (level 0)
Second BP slot unlocks at level 20
Third unlocks at level 40

As far as upgrade missions, maybe, eventually.

Other, better machines would be introduced as well, gradually, with more slots and maybe crafting buffs. This is just the Mk. I.

A better version could have 2 rows x 3 slots each, for tandem crafting. For example for making Durable Hood and Super Alloy Mountings, without having to change the blueprints and paying decay every time.

There are a lot of possibilities for sure ?

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23

The idea is great. But how many people would really benefit from this? Seems like just a few, and with a tool like this the gap between them and the others would grow three times faster.

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24

Hehe love it. Cool addition!

Do you imagine this as exclusively a private thing in your own home or as a public thing in some crafting hot spots?

Can everybody get one or would you like a limited supply, like … 10 “advanced robot assembling unit”, looted from i dunno, rx units in some event? (Should prolly be mined/crafted tho?)

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25

I think this machine should be introduced via an extremely rare limited Boosted BP drop.

It shouldn’t be dropped to the highest level crafters directly, so probably a level 3 BP at the highest.

The rate would be a trickle at first, maybe 1 new machine made per month at most, give people time to negotiate deals on it.

This is a privately owned machine, it’s meant to benefit the owner only. Whoever owns one can make crafted components cheaper than anyone else and has an appreciable advantage over others who do not have one.

I suspect the first ones who will be clamoring for one are ArMatrix weapon shop owners/crafters, since those require a lot of expensive metal components. Next would be AP plate sellers/crafters or just pure component crafters.

Eventually, in UE5, it should possible to build a factory on a Land Plot that has assembly lines and machines like this that people can use, for a fee, but that’s a little further away. I think this simple machine could/should be introduced sooner though, so crafters can invest in their profession and continue to progress.

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26

When we talk about new ideas for crafting, i would like to have a machine that you have to assemble from regular hunting loot and you have to put it into a house or a shop in order to make it work, this machine has some own blueprints that takes say 1day up to 2 weeks to complete and during these days you have to go back to the machine and add materials to the craft in order to progress it. These blueprints should have a random generated resource need so all materials in the world would have a use. And if you say in this process get a material need that has too high of a markup you can abort the process and get your used materials back.
These new crafted items would be worth alot and crafting would become fun and intresting part of the game again.

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27

I want to multi punch mobs then. Like Ip Man! :boxer: :cool:

28

To me, if you can buy CoS this machine looks like a game breaker.

I’m trying to wrap my head around that but crafting is already pretty different from other professions in that (professional) advancement has a sunk cost. They put something like that into hunting with looter levels but maybe this is one area where massive activity is required to have a feel for the balance. Buying QR vs. buying looter levels, I mean.

You can buy throughput, I don’t care. I don’t know if anyone newly approaching the crafting profession would care most would just see “gambling faster” I think. For those that want to be real crafters, productive in the economy - is thousands of USD in expense just to get on a level playing field really an inspiring “challenge”?

Ignoring some things about actual competitive events, right now you can have a “level appropriate” experience and sustain in pretty much any profession. I think that pushing CoS past what’s available at a public terminal is a pretty different thing.

Just my .2 PEC ?‍♂️

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29

There is no single pathway, you can just buy a fully leveled plot if you so desire

30

That’s good feedback, thanks Atrax. I’ll note at the same time that you aren’t here for the RCE.

Putting that aside for a moment, you do get that I’m trying to solve the issue that right now, crafters have no way of investing into their chosen path and putting distance between themselves and a hunter or miner that’s just dabbling in crafting?

Hunters clearly can do that, with all the Loot 2.0 weapons now available, they have a significant leg up on anyone approaching hunting as primarily a recreational activity. I don’t think it’s fair as a crafter that any hunter can jump into my profession, crafting, and have the same results as me, but I can’t do the same and jump into hunting and immediately, without significant investment, have the same results as any other hunter. This is the issue being addressed here.

The fact that lower level players are being “excluded” is a seperate issue I think. There needs to be more content for all levels, in all professions. For example, in hunting, we have Cyclops Depths which is fun for someone around 40-70, and then RDI secret lab for players 80-140. The same kind of thing should exist in mining and crafting and the fact it doesn’t, doesn’t preclude the first issue described above.

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31

Just please MA I’d you do this make sure it’s part of the plot system

and someone sell me a plot! Please wake up plot owners and sell me one ahha

32

Sure I hear you, that’s why I was clear that this actually is edging into an area where you have to be pretty deep into things to have a solid feel for it.

They’re going to have to grind up the same skill, and QR as you also. Of course you can grind your hunting skill levels as high as you like before you pick up any of the top tier gear. But also a low level player on (L) gear can definitely achieve or surpass the TT percentage returns of an uber hunter fully decked out.

No real negativity, just noting that as a casual it seems like an awfully high bar, and including CoS increases in the current crafting model imply a change to TT returns. This means that literally nobody who hasn’t gone this deep could be economically competitive.

Right now advancing in crafting is definitely just more and more of the same. I understand people already deep into that want some way to expand, or do more. If the CoS affects actual success rate (product vs. res) and not TT returns then it shouldn’t be a concern for anyone dabbling. Much like the hunting situation, where you can get to a stable return percentage with ‘lesser’ gear - but you need to go next level to keep your loot quality up and farm MV.

But yep that’s also why the ‘point’ on the 2 PEC comment. :LOL:

I’m not deep enough to be really constructive on this one. Just wanted to express my fear. (concern? whatever…)

Another edit. “Economically competitive” isn’t exactly the right term there. I hope you can see what I’m saying, it’s about personal economy, not “the economy” as this would give an (admittedly earned) edge in terms of participating in the player economy. But for the TT cycle QR is already there to meter personal stability in much the same way as looter levels do now.

33

Not necessarily. There could be machines that do, but I wasn’t necessarily asking for that. Right now a maxed QR 100 BP (or maxed limited BP with a 95% SR) will give you 40 successes per 100 clicks, that’s 2.5 clicks for each success. It’s possible to raise that by just switching out the multiplier table and without raising tt returns. For instance, you would go from something like:

x0 (fails) = 10% chance
x0.25 = 15% chance
x0.50 = 15% chance
x0.75 = 15% chance
x1.00 = 15% chance
x2.50 = 10% chance
x5.00 = 5% chance
x10.00 = 5% chance
x25.00 = 4% chance
x50 = 3% chance
x100 = 2% chance
x1000 = 0.5% chance
…etc…

To something like:
x0 (fails) = 20% chance
x0.15 = 20% chance
x1.10 = 30% chance
x2.50 = 10% chance
x5.00 = 5% chance
x10.00 = 5% chance
x25.00 = 4% chance
x50 = 3% chance
x100 = 2% chance
x1000 = 0.5% chance
…etc…

I haven’t done the math on this to see what the mean average returns would be, I’m just trying to illustrate that the multiplier table can be manipulated so as to end up with more successes overall, way higher than the current 40%, and still provide the same tt returns.

And the point of that is to give a way for professional crafters to gain an edge through investment in better equipment. Some of the things that this would be tremendously beneficial for would be High Grade Plugs, GeoTrek Hardened EnBolts, Enhanced Talytic Converters, that kind of thing that through the process of cumulative losses from one component to the next and to the next end up being extremely costly to make, especially when the mats are very expensive.

But to even get there requires significant investment and dedication because you’d have to bring 3 blueprints to QR 100, not an easy feat, I don’t even have 1 of the 3 I mentionned above at QR 100 yet.

No, it’s not a fair comparisson. QR is easy compared to Looter. Most prints need around 20k clicks to bring up to 100, so at 780 clicks/hour, that just takes like 25.5 hours. Yes it has to be repeated for all the various BPs someone is going to be using, but it’s easy (and sometimes surprisingly cheap) to buy a QR 100 BP, whereas for Looter 100, I don’t even want to think about how much money it would take to transfer over that much skill, just insane. So I don’t think that’s a fair comparisson. It just means it’s easier for someone to switch over to crafting and start competing with uber crafters, there’s not much of a barrier there compared to the current barrier if I wanted to go compete with the uber hunters.

In crafting we don’t actually have an equivalent, once you max out a non-SIB print, you are stuck at 90% tt returns forever. And I guess MA doesn’t feel any urgency to deal with this since they know that crafters will just pass on any tt losses to hunters and miners through the markup they will charge on the item.

So you see, MA takes from the crafters, then the crafters have no choice but to take from the hunters and miners. If MA fixed this, items would be cheaper, actually.

2 Likes
34

That brings up the question tho, do we want/need a specific crafter to have an edge over other crafters? I mean I totally understand the personal motivation of wanting to work towards something and to be able to have a cool and unique way to outdo another competing crafter. And to not feel like you maxed your profession and potential so quickly compared to hunting. (tho I guess mining is even worse off in that respect?)

But I simply dont know enough about the crafting/mining economy to know how that would affect the market. Like, would that maybe lead to fewer crafters cuz they feel they cant compete with the prices of those others who have a higher success rate? If the whole point is to give a few crafters a higher % chance on a successful craft, then that would only really affect MU on the items they craft, pushing all the other crafters out? Whats the point in crafting if you cant get one of those machines and compete with the ones who have one. Those would always be able to sell for a lower % and what not. ( you can prolly see how I know shit about crafting/EU-economy lol=

Anyone able to elaborate on the impact that would have on the market as a whole? (obv. speculate I guess)

35

I think we’re on the same page then, thanks for clarifying.

You did say “rate of success” and I heard “chance of success”. I wanted to clarify, and it’s clear now. This exactly addresses what I was trying to say. For a player where I’m at it’s not as significant if you have an economic edge (mv) over another high level armor or weapons crafter. As long as you’re not buying TT.

As far as this:

As stated, from my perspective, yadda yadda perhaps this thing could offer some speed options. From the levels I’m at (15 - 20 in most crafting professions) this isn’t actually as overwhelming as messing with returns would be. [SIZE=1]Which you clarified you aren’t talking about.[/SIZE]

What I think about this is that if you put a slider that balances the available changes to rate of success with rate of speed somehow, that may be ok. Just a thought. If you want the speed, you take the same risk. Honestly personally I see that as riskier anyways as all the other aspects of the loot engine come into play.

Mind the waves! I’m not sure I would do an hour’s worth of turnover in 2 minutes ?

On the relative professional expense, again I don’t feel qualified to address the balance of that. If you think it’s significantly more expensive to get to, say level 50 Laser Rifle and level 50 Animal Looter, with level appropriate gear than it is to get to, say level 50 Laser Weapons Engineer and level 50 in the required component crafting, with a level appropriate collection of BPs - I have to take your word for it. It’s not important what level just laying out my presumed basis for comparison.

I do wonder though, once you’re ready for this level of activity - with the plots, the plot levels, the machine, etc… all the costs to get this thing set up and running, what are we talking about here?

Is this a loot 2.0 150k sword, or a 250k MF chip? LR 40? Obviously I’m not going there, and plots will vary with market but can you loosely ballpark it for me? How much are you looking to spend, to get this? It’s going to be something you can do over time, as presented, so that’s a little less of a hurdle.

In this case it’s much better than, say, using an unmaxed weapon. Once there are a few in game you could buy this, and use it to level up from 0?

For me this goes back to the effective rate of success issue. It’s that RCE realism that says if you can acquire a bigger workshop, or automate part of your process, once you pay off your investment you’re able to deliver more and/or cheaper product.

I’m not sure if people in general want it, but if it’s balanced right it’s not entirely unreasonable. You might want to get some out a little faster than proposed above, though. It’s a realistic (real world) scenario with the machine but depending on that rate of success, it could be quite the advantage.

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36

The machine can be either used only by land plot owner if he has his plot private or used by anyone if he leaves his plot public! And of course he can set a small % of how much he gets if someone uses his mechine!!! ??

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37

Here is a key feature for increasing crafting

the machine cannot increase QR.
so regular crafting gets less results than the machine but is the only way to make QR

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38

I think the obvious utility of this machine is to use it to obtain greater output of extremely expensive crafted components such as Enhanced Talytic Converters.

These guys (Enhanced Talytic Converters) are required for making the highest level ArMatrix weapons and amps. They are currently selling for 400% on the auction. To make them, you need GeoTrek Hardened EnBolts, which are also going for 400%. The whole thing is a friggin nightmare and 40% Success Rate on this stuff is a real kick in the balls.

If a pro crafter could invest in a machine that could give them a steady 50% Success Rate, that would make those components a bit cheaper to make and give those with the machine a nice little advantage.

I think, as long as MA doesn’t flood the game with these machines, the only area where they are likely to be used is for dealing with really expensive components such as these. So in the end, it just makes it a little more difficult for somone without such a machine to compete on THOSE components, most of the other components would not be touched (because of the 15 ped cost of replacing the BPs makes it not really worth it).

Professional crafters don’t need speed. Professional crafters should not be bothering with 10 pec clicks. They should be buying their Standard Plates and Filters from other crafters. The idea here is not to create a tool that gives the biggest wallet a monopoly on the whole of the crafting business, the idea is to make it possible for them to invest in tools where they can improve their numbers a bit to give them a slight edge against others who aren’t prepared to invest their money in crafting.

Well right now we’re only talking about component crafting.

MA did an awesome job with Gizmos which did 2 things that really changed everything for crafters:

  1. It made it possible for lower level players to skill Armor Engineer, Weapon Engineer and Attachement Engineer at very low cost
  2. It created a limited BP economy (ArMatrix and AP plates mostly, but also others like P20 and mining amps limited BPs)

But now, anyone can essentially do it for free, anyone can click Gizmos and skill very quickly to the point they can make any ArMatrix weapon and amp, and any AP plate, even the high level ones.

So competition is growing and I feel there is a need for better equipement to be released that the serious crafters who are in it for the long haul can invest in.

It doesn’t have to be deployed on a Land Plot, it can be deployed in an apartement or any estate with at least 100 item points.

The machine itself could very easily be worth between 20-40k.

Later, when factories can be built on Land Plots, perhaps the Land Plots can provide additional functionality to these machines.

2 Likes
39

Nah man the key idea of this is faster crafting.

it takes ages to make 1000000 basic filters, this machine can speed up those cheap basic crafts

If this machine is anything but a land plot mechanism it is a failed concept

land plots need purpose, other estates have plenty of purpose already.

40

MA has a different concept in mind for Land Plot “factories” and I don’t want to detract from that.

If you want to know what I think that concept is, just look at my wishlist thread, under “Land Plots”, it’s all explained in detail there. Link