Average damage of Mann Mph (amped and unamped)

[Avery]

I did some testing with a Mann Mph unamped and a Mann Mph amped with an A102 to determine whether a Laser amp decreases or increases efficiency of a gun. This is far from a complete study

As discussed in: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2839 , collecting this data can be quite cumbersome. As a result, I’ve only done a test with 500 shots unamped and 1000 shots amped. To determine the maximum possible dam/pec of the 2 combinations, I have used Headwar’s chart.

Professional Standing: Great Laser Pistoleer.

:: Mann Mph ::

No. of shots: 500
Minimum damage: 1.3
Maximum damage: 3.9
Average damage: 2.6282
Min. as % of Max.: 32.5%
Avg. as % of Max.: 65.705%
Max Possible Dam per Pec: 3.9378
Avg. Dam per Pec: 2.5873

:: Mann Mph with A102 ::

No. of shots: 1000
Minimum damage: 3.5
Maximum damage: 10.9
Average damage: 7.2855
Min. as % of Max.: 31.82%
Avg. as % of Max.: 66.232%
Max Possible Dam per Pec: 4.354
Avg. Dam per Pec: 2.8837

Some notes:

1. Average damage achieved through test compared to (min + max) / 2:

Unamped: 2.6282 vs. 2.6
Amped: 7.2855 vs. 7.2

2. I only registered 3.5 twice with the amped Mann, could this be that my minimum is about to go up from 3.5 to 3.6? My current minimum is possibly around 3.54.

3. The key result to look at is Average Damage as % of Maximum Damage of Gun. Unamped I got 65.705% and amped I got 66.232%. With a bigger sample I expect these values to be closer to one another, if not equal to one another.

I want to do more intensive testing, but as Prodiq says, there’s not exactly an easy way to do this. A secretary may be necessary

Findings: Amping with a Laser amplifier such as A102 will not decrease Average Damage as % of Maximum Damage at moderate skill levels; i.e. one takes good advantage of the increased dam/pec of Omegaton A1xx and A2xx amps on any gun that has an inferior dam/pec to the amp.

[Essi]

Great work! Thanks

I was too lazy to do that myself

[Cindywood]

thanks for that info very intressting/good to know

[ron]

[QUOTE=Avery]
I did some testing with a Mann Mph unamped and a Mann Mph amped with an A102 to determine whether a Laser amp decreases or increases efficiency of a gun. This is far from a complete study

As discussed in: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2839 , collecting this data can be quite cumbersome. As a result, I’ve only done a test with 500 shots unamped and 1000 shots amped. To determine the maximum possible dam/pec of the 2 combinations, I have used Headwar’s chart.

Professional Standing: Great Laser Pistoleer.

:: Mann Mph ::

No. of shots: 500
Minimum damage: 1.3
Maximum damage: 3.9
Average damage: 2.6282
Min. as % of Max.: 32.5%
Avg. as % of Max.: 65.705%
Max Possible Dam per Pec: 3.9378
Avg. Dam per Pec: 2.5873

:: Mann Mph with A102 ::

No. of shots: 1000
Minimum damage: 3.5
Maximum damage: 10.9
Average damage: 7.2855
Min. as % of Max.: 31.82%
Avg. as % of Max.: 66.232%
Max Possible Dam per Pec: 4.354
Avg. Dam per Pec: 2.8837

Some notes:

1. Average damage achieved through test compared to (min + max) / 2:

Unamped: 2.6282 vs. 2.6
Amped: 7.2855 vs. 7.2

2. I only registered 3.5 twice with the amped Mann, could this be that my minimum is about to go up from 3.5 to 3.6? My current minimum is possibly around 3.54.

3. The key result to look at is Average Damage as % of Maximum Damage of Gun. Unamped I got 65.705% and amped I got 66.232%. With a bigger sample I expect these values to be closer to one another, if not equal to one another.

I want to do more intensive testing, but as Prodiq says, there’s not exactly an easy way to do this. A secretary may be necessary

Findings: Amping with a Laser amplifier such as A102 will not decrease Average Damage as % of Maximum Damage at moderate skill levels; i.e. one takes good advantage of the increased dam/pec of Omegaton A1xx and A2xx amps on any gun that has an inferior dam/pec to the amp.
[/QUOTE]

no ofc it should logical be the same % in ur skill unamped or amped (the amped gun might aswell be another stronger gun without an amp). the only thing is u will still lose more in hunting bcs hte cost is bigger.. so amp really need high skills to not waste to much

[Essi]

[QUOTE=ron]
no ofc it should logical be the same % in ur skill unamped or amped (the amped gun might aswell be another stronger gun without an amp). the only thing is u will still lose more in hunting bcs hte cost is bigger.. so amp really need high skills to not waste to much
[/QUOTE]

Some ppl have claimed that amp damage does not depend on skills (like I noted in another thread). This was a proof of opposite.

[Avery]

[QUOTE=ron]
no ofc it should logical be the same % in ur skill unamped or amped (the amped gun might aswell be another stronger gun without an amp). the only thing is u will still lose more in hunting bcs hte cost is bigger.. so amp really need high skills to not waste to much
[/QUOTE]

There’s been speculation that the average dam/pec you get on an amp is lower than a gun. Although the discussion on this forum was mainly on blp amps. I thought I’d check this for myself.

EDIT: What Essi says above. Far more eloquently than I do as usual!!!

I don’t quite understand what you’re saying about losing more if you hunt with an amp though. In my mind only dam/pec matters, so maybe I misunderstand what you’re saying. To explain my point of view I’ll paint 3 scenarios. Mann Mph on its own, Mann Mph with A102 and Imaginary Gun.

I’m not sure if the values are 100% correct but they should be close enough for this exercise. Oh, and of course I’ve made up the stats for the imaginary gun I won’t compare to existing guns, since all other low end guns are completely out of their depth. I’ll assume 66% Average Damage.

Mann Mph:

Maximum Damage: 4
Average Damage: 2.64
Burn: 1
Decay: 0.02
Cost Per Shot: 1.02 PEC

Mann Mph with A102:

Maximum Damage: 11
Average Damage: 7.26
Burn: 2
Total Decay: 0.5306
Cost Per Shot: 2.5306 PEC

Imaginary Gun aka Improved M2201 :

I’ll assume an imaginary gun with 2 burn that does 11 damage with 20m range, 0.9 second reload, and a very respectable 4.20 dam/pec. Pretty awesome gun for its class.

Maximum Damage: 11
Average Damage: 7.26
Burn: 2
Total Decay: 0.619
Cost Per Shot: 2.619 PEC

Assume we need to kill a mob with 100hp.

Scenario 1: Mann Mph

Avg. # of shots needed: 38
Avg. cost per mob: 38.76 PEC

Scenario 2: Mann Mph with A102

Avg. # of shots needed: 14
Avg. cost per mob: 35.4284 PEC

Scenario 3: Improved M2201

Avg. # of shots needed: 14
Avg. cost per mob: 36.666 PEC

Obviously the cost per mob can be brought down slightly in both Scenario 2 and 3 by using an unamped Mann Mph as a finishing gun.

Comparing scenario 2 to scenario 3 you’ll save on average 1.2376 PEC per mob. In a hunt of 50 PED ammo (178 mobs) this amounts to a saving of 2.21 PED.

Please tell me if I’m missing the point

[rstock]

Minimum Damage for a noob on mann mph is 1.1.
mine is 1.3. and that only increase with skills.

Just in case someone dinnt know,

[Essi]

[QUOTE=rstock]
Minimum Damage for a noob on mann mph is 1.1.
mine is 1.3. and that only increase with skills.

[/QUOTE]

Difference between you and a noob is 0.2 then

[Avery]

[QUOTE=rstock]
Minimum Damage for a noob on mann mph is 1.1.
mine is 1.3. and that only increase with skills.

Just in case someone dinnt know,
[/QUOTE]

Not that it changes your point at all, but isn’t minimum damage 1.0 for a new player?

That brings up an interesting exercise for those bored enough. If, of course, they have a personal assistant to write the damage down for them It would be great if people at different skill levels could do similar tests. I know something was attempted on EP, but not enough people participated.

We might answer questions like:
Can an avatar with 0 skills use an A204 effectively?
Or heaven forbid, can a (very rich) newbie kill mobs cheaper with an Improved MK2 to a person with 3000 average skills that uses a regular MK2?

[ron]

[QUOTE=Avery]
There’s been speculation that the average dam/pec you get on an amp is lower than a gun. Although the discussion on this forum was mainly on blp amps. I thought I’d check this for myself.

EDIT: What Essi says above. Far more eloquently than I do as usual!!!

I don’t quite understand what you’re saying about losing more if you hunt with an amp though. In my mind only dam/pec matters, so maybe I misunderstand what you’re saying. To explain my point of view I’ll paint 3 scenarios. Mann Mph on its own, Mann Mph with A102 and Imaginary Gun.

I’m not sure if the values are 100% correct but they should be close enough for this exercise. Oh, and of course I’ve made up the stats for the imaginary gun I won’t compare to existing guns, since all other low end guns are completely out of their depth. I’ll assume 66% Average Damage.

Mann Mph:

Maximum Damage: 4
Average Damage: 2.64
Burn: 1
Decay: 0.02
Cost Per Shot: 1.02 PEC

Mann Mph with A102:

Maximum Damage: 11
Average Damage: 7.26
Burn: 2
Total Decay: 0.5306
Cost Per Shot: 2.5306 PEC

Imaginary Gun aka Improved M2201 :

I’ll assume an imaginary gun with 2 burn that does 11 damage with 20m range, 0.9 second reload, and a very respectable 4.20 dam/pec. Pretty awesome gun for its class.

Maximum Damage: 11
Average Damage: 7.26
Burn: 2
Total Decay: 0.619
Cost Per Shot: 2.619 PEC

Assume we need to kill a mob with 100hp.

Scenario 1: Mann Mph

Avg. # of shots needed: 38
Avg. cost per mob: 38.76 PEC

Scenario 2: Mann Mph with A102

Avg. # of shots needed: 14
Avg. cost per mob: 35.4284 PEC

Scenario 3: Improved M2201

Avg. # of shots needed: 14
Avg. cost per mob: 36.666 PEC

Obviously the cost per mob can be brought down slightly in both Scenario 2 and 3 by using an unamped Mann Mph as a finishing gun.

Comparing scenario 2 to scenario 3 you’ll save on average 1.2376 PEC per mob. In a hunt of 50 PED ammo (178 mobs) this amounts to a saving of 2.21 PED.

Please tell me if I’m missing the point
[/QUOTE]

point is that those figures are only theoretical.. and u cant use the max dmg/pec to to define eff u gotta use the real dmg/ped depending on which skil u got then u would notice diff. aka every shot u do lower dmg on every shot u miss is more costly and the fact u got regain on mobs.. I dont like using amps I’ve tested it when hunting same mobs on larger trips with amp and withou on same mobs and almost every time I get less profit/ more loss back..

and yes lowest on noob with mann is 1 dmg I got well over 6k handgun and still have my lowest 1.7 .. I dont get it so often thou

was a while back I tested it htou maybe it changed..

and I’m not sure how u test the eff on amped guns.. u cant take the eff on em and simply add em together and divide by 2 it dont work that way..

a wokring formula is this.. u might already use it.. but maybe some other peeps want to know

((effeciency gun * dmg gun) + (effeciency amp * dmg amp)) / total damage

[iwasinnamuknow]

I would be happy to help out on testing…I have 210 HG/1160 rifle…so upper n00b level

if anyone wants to lend me an imp mkII…

seriously, i could arrange a secretary to write dmg…what needs testing?

[Avery]

[QUOTE=ron]
point is that those figures are only theoretical.. and u cant use the max dmg/pec to to define eff u gotta use the real dmg/ped depending on which skil u got then u would notice diff. aka every shot u do lower dmg on every shot u miss is more costly and the fact u got regain on mobs.. I dont like using amps I’ve tested it when hunting same mobs on larger trips with amp and withou on same mobs and almost every time I get less profit/ more loss back..
[/QUOTE]

Apologies for the long post!!!

Point taken, we’ll probably just have to agree to disagree If it works for you, then don’t change it.

Just a couple points:

1. “cant use the max dmg/pec”: If real dmg/pec is a percentage of max dmg/pec, then surely if the max dmg/pec is higher, then the real dmg/pec will also be? (This will go for laser amps, since the real dam/pec percentage is consistent even if you use an amp). Aside: For this exercise i used the real dmg/pec for someone with my skills, not the max dmg/pec.

2. “every shot u do lower dmg”: This is why I used the real dmg/pec. It will even out in the long run. Regen on a mob will be identical for Scenarios 2 and 3 above, since these 2 guns have identical real dmg/sec.

3. “missed shots”: I know you’re not comparing Scenarios 2 and 3 with this, as Scenario 2 will win here too. You’re looking more at Adjusted Hero on its own and Adjusted Hero with A105. However, I believe I have this covered. Yes, you’ll lose more with a missed shot on an amped Adjusted Hero - but you proportionately will miss more often unamped, since you’ll take more shots!

E.g. You miss 1 in 10 shots after server calculation. For simplicity lets say the Adj Hero costs 10 PEC to use and does on average 29 damage. Furthermore the amped Adj Hero costs 13.5 PEC to use and does on average 39.6 damage.

Unamped - # of shots to do 10000 damage: 345. So 383 total shots, 38 misses.
Amped - # of shots to do 10000 damage: 253. So 281 total shots, 28 misses.

Unamped - 3810 = 3.80 PED lost due to misses.
Amped - 2813.5 = 3.78 PED lost due to misses.

You do however have a very good point with missed shots due to human error!! That’s why I’d always favour a low cost rapid firing gun to a high cost slower gun. E.g. 2 guns that do 50 dmg/sec. First gun costs 8 PEC to use, and fires every 0.75 seconds; the second gun costs 16 PEC to use and fires every 1.5 seconds. With the first gun you’ll only lose 8 PEC for a miss due to human error; for the second you’ll lose 16 PEC.

When I hunt with a handgun, I often use a Jester to get that mob to come for me, to cater for human error when taking the first shot.

One last thing, I make very good use of finishing guns, so overkill isn’t much of an issue if I amp up.

Ok, that’s my posting done for the year

[Avery]

[QUOTE=iwasinnamuknow]
I would be happy to help out on testing…I have 210 HG/1160 rifle…so upper n00b level

if anyone wants to lend me an imp mkII…

seriously, i could arrange a secretary to write dmg…what needs testing?
[/QUOTE]

Great to know Maybe someone has some insight as to how to go about this? I’m willing to lend a hand by putting any data into a spreadsheet and doing the necessary calculations.

[system]

Very informative post Avery, thanks for sharing!!

DD
:evilking: