Terms and Condition Changes.

Aziphirael · July 4, 2005, 2:25pm

Dunno if you all got this newsletter but heres the gist:

Dear Sir/Madam,

In accordance with Paragraph 17 in the Project Entropia Conditions of Use, you, as a Project Entropia participant, is hereby notified about upcoming additions to the Project Entropia Conditions of Use.

The Project Entropia Conditions of Use will be updated with two new entries. Paragraph 6 will include a section regarding transactions and Paragraph 15 will include a section about rumor-mongering.

The Addition to Paragraph 6 is as follows:

‘All and any trade with Virtual items, virtual funds, as well as real fund transactions, must be done through MindArk approved procedures. Any such transactions carried out using any non-approved procedure is a violation and can result in a lockdown of any involved account. If you are unsure if a certain transaction is approved or not, you must contact the Project Entropia support for confirmation.’

The reason for this is to increase and ensure security and integrity of the Project Entropia system. Due to a number of ‘scams’ done using third party transaction methods, we must take steps to make the virtual universe environment as safe as possible.

The Additions to Paragraph 15 is as follows:

‘You cannot spread any rumors about MindArk, Project Entropia, and MindArk Staff or Partners, that can be considered potentially damaging, using Project Entropia, IRC or any other public forums, for example a web space.’

The reason for this addition is to avoid malicious individuals to spread unfounded rumors with the intent to fuel discontent and trying to stir up negativity and bad will against Project Entropia and MindArk.

Regards
-Project Entropia Legal Department

system · July 4, 2005, 2:34pm

[QUOTE=Aziphirael]

‘You cannot spread any rumors about MindArk, Project Entropia, and MindArk Staff or Partners, that can be considered potentially damaging, using Project Entropia, IRC or any other public forums, for example a web space.’

[/QUOTE]

that will never stand up in a court

system · July 4, 2005, 2:34pm

[QUOTE=Aziphirael]

‘You cannot spread any rumors about MindArk, Project Entropia, and MindArk Staff or Partners, that can be considered potentially damaging, using Project Entropia, IRC or any other public forums, for example a web space.’

The reason for this addition is to avoid malicious individuals to spread unfounded rumors with the intent to fuel discontent and trying to stir up negativity and bad will against Project Entropia and MindArk.

Regards
-Project Entropia Legal Department
[/QUOTE]

Who defines whats rumour and whats not? Sounds like MA just wants to outlaw the forums that doesnt think happy thoughts and is content with the silent nerfs in PE like skills and so on.I call the skill nerf a silent nerf since we dont got exact stats on how much slower it is

Unlocking hidden skills in the 7.5 skillsystem seems very hard since all skills USED (note that I said used,incase MA changed the requirement to unlock) to be a mix of lets say Aim,weapons handling,BLP/LWT,IRD,Combat reflex and pistol/rifle..current skillsystem has halted the skillgains on the sub combat skills so bad that I doubt anyone will unlock for instance Coolness with 1 year of hardcore hunting 500-800peds of ammo per day

Complaining shouldnt be “illegal” either if its somewhat constructive and not only personal insults. If I wanna tell all my friends how bad the loot sucks,whether its on IRC,a forum or the biggest magazine in my country I should be allowed to. It would raise a discussion about PE since its a rare concept which many MMORPG developers consider “wrong” and to addictive

I can go on forever but I know you guys cant focus to long so I end it here

gurkha · July 4, 2005, 2:39pm

ouch!

no more buying and selling of PEDs, they wish…

Of course people will continue if it takes you 5 months to withdraw PED normally. EDIT: was going to stick idiots on the end, but then i’d be breaking the EULA :rolleyes:

lots more to say about this, but then i’d just be moaning.

The_Beast · July 4, 2005, 2:39pm

MA are not saying you cannot have an opinion, what they are saying, is that they will not, and should not, tolerate people who take it upon themselves to make up things about MA because they are unhappy.

And as for the transaction statements, MA are rightly covering thier own ass from bad publicity and making sure people who know no better are protected.

FFS people, grow up a bit and think about it.

hooters · July 4, 2005, 2:40pm

[QUOTE=Aziphirael]
The Addition to Paragraph 6 is as follows:

‘All and any trade with Virtual items, virtual funds, as well as real fund transactions, must be done through MindArk approved procedures. Any such transactions carried out using any non-approved procedure is a violation and can result in a lockdown of any involved account. If you are unsure if a certain transaction is approved or not, you must contact the Project Entropia support for confirmation.’

The reason for this is to increase and ensure security and integrity of the Project Entropia system. Due to a number of ‘scams’ done using third party transaction methods, we must take steps to make the virtual universe environment as safe as possible.

[/QUOTE]

Does this mean that people who sell their PEDS through paypal, paynova or whatever isn’t supposed to do that? If so, i was never aware that this was “illegal”

system · July 4, 2005, 2:40pm

MMORPG.com:
Project Entropia operates a little differently in that it isn’t merely just a broker system of one player selling to another but you actually selling to the player. What is your opinion/stance on the more standard secondary market? Players listing items for sale on ebay or buying/selling through broker companies such as IGE?

Marco Behrmann:
We have the position that the players of Project Entropia are free to use the system as they see fit, as long is the follow the rules of conduct. After all, they are the ones playing Project Entropia and who invest money and time into it, so why should we impose strange rules onto them? One thing to remember though is that any trade activities performed outside the confines of Project Entropia is not guaranteed or secure, and if you get scammed, MA cannot help you. A vast majority of our players realize this and use the tools we supply to them within the virtual universe instead of venturing outside.

Aziphirael · July 4, 2005, 2:43pm

Well I suppose they could sue for Libel or Slander, which is one way they could do it. The question is how is Swedish Law setup on this fact, whether its like UK law, where the defendant has to prove their statements was not libel or slander. Or if its like the US where I believe the accuser has to prove that the person libelled or slandered them.

Guess why companies like suing people in the UK

On a more serious note, is the fact they want to ban essentially thrid party transaction like through Paypal and Bank Transfer. Is that a good or bad thing? Not sure really. But its only going to stop I feel, if MA can speed up the withdrawal system.

Starfinder · July 4, 2005, 2:44pm

New EULA

Hey.
As you prolly have seen there is a new EULA in place for PE..
The two additions to the existing EULA is that we now arent allowed to:

Do any transactions outside of MA’s system.
Say anything bad about MA.

‘All and any trade with Virtual items, virtual funds, as well as real fund
transactions, must be done through MindArk approved procedures. Any such
transactions carried out using any non-approved procedure is a violation and can
result in a lockdown of any involved account. If you are unsure if a certain
transaction is approved or not, you must contact the Project Entropia support
for confirmation.’

The reason for this is to increase and ensure security and integrity of the
Project Entropia system. Due to a number of ‘scams’ done using third party
transaction methods, we must take steps to make the virtual universe environment
as safe as possible.

One could argue that its fine that MA decides that we are only allowed to use their system, since its safer… But why arent I allowed to decide if I want to use one or the other system ??? There were a reason why some people used PayPal instead of the ingame withdraw section…
Hmm… There goes our freedom to choose…

‘You cannot spread any rumors about MindArk, Project Entropia, and MindArk Staff
or Partners, that can be considered potentially damaging, using Project
Entropia, IRC or any other public forums, for example a web space.’

The reason for this addition is to avoid malicious individuals to spread
unfounded rumors with the intent to fuel discontent and trying to stir up
negativity and bad will against Project Entropia and MindArk.

I can understand why unfounded rumors should be stopped… But who decides what is unfounded and what isent?
Unless a third body, not MA - not the Players, do formal hearings on what is unfounded and what isent I dont see any way we can be sure such rumors arent real… I think its too easy for MA simply to say: “This is unfounded”.. And then we arent allowed to discuss it.
There goes our freedom of speach…

Thoughts?

Starfinder · July 4, 2005, 2:49pm

btw.. I just saw.. its their “comment” that states “unfounded”… the point in the EULA states no such thing about unfounded.. hence.. you can have hard evidence that MA has done soemthing.. but you cant say it to anyone.. since it would be a rumour…

nice one..

system · July 4, 2005, 2:52pm

actually MA can’t really know if you sold something outside of PE, because all they see is a trade with no peds involved.

So they couldn’t really prove there was a trade unless one party complains.

Fred sells jon and imp mk2 through paypal. jon is a bit of a scammer so tells MA he was ripped off, MA lock fred because he went outside of PE payment system.

NoBion · July 4, 2005, 3:00pm

lol..

Now we arent able to sell our peds/items anymore, outside PE..

This meens, That they have 100% control over your money, And if you try to avoid it. They lock your account down + all your money…

that is lame!

system · July 4, 2005, 3:02pm

maybe this was the surprise

Darkscorp · July 4, 2005, 3:03pm

[QUOTE=NoBion]
lol..

Now we arent able to sell our peds/items anymore, outside PE..

This meens, That they have 100% control over your money, And if you try to avoid it. They lock your account down + all your money…

that is lame!
[/QUOTE]

No…thats not what I read but I’d still contact MA to find out what “approved” means first.

Essi · July 4, 2005, 3:06pm

I would like to bring up some points:
[ul][li]This new EULA doesnt nean MA will act upon those new things - just that they are on list of actions that clearly may lead to locking/banning. (I think most PE players have broken EULA without getting punished.)[/li][li]This isnt anything totally new since MA has had rights to lock/ban without any EULA statements before.[/li][li]This also can prevent players as well as scammers and those who intentionally try to damage PE or hurt players are “warned” in EULA.[/li][/ul]

gurkha · July 4, 2005, 3:08pm

[QUOTE=wanda]
actually MA can’t really know if you sold something outside of PE, because all they see is a trade with no peds involved.

So they couldn’t really prove there was a trade unless one party complains.

Fred sells jon and imp mk2 through paypal. jon is a bit of a scammer so tells MA he was ripped off, MA lock fred because he went outside of PE payment system.
[/QUOTE]

could be the other way round:

Fred gets the USD through paypal, and then doesn’t trade, MA see’s nothing, and jon’s screwed.

or he could trade then claim that Jon used that fancy trade bug to cheat him out of his impmk2

system · July 4, 2005, 3:09pm

actually, MA list several approved payment methods for depositing on their site such as;

paynova
paybycash
game-time.info
bank transfer
“certificate”
credit card

Players could “assume” these methods are also approved for any pe transaction unless told otherwise.

system · July 4, 2005, 3:10pm

[QUOTE=gurkha]

Fred gets the USD through paypal, and then doesn’t trade, MA see’s nothing, and jon’s screwed.

[/QUOTE]

Jon can send a copy of the reciept to MA though proving he sent money.

Both players can be locked I guess

Essi · July 4, 2005, 3:13pm

[QUOTE=wanda]
Jon can send a copy of the reciept to MA though proving he sent money.

[/QUOTE]

But MA cant be sure he sent money just for that purpose.

I think MA wants to get rid of those trades because they cant control/monitor them, BUT they will get blamed/hurted when someone gets scammed.

system · July 4, 2005, 3:13pm

[QUOTE=wanda]
Jon can send a copy of the reciept to MA though proving he sent money.

Both players can be locked I guess
[/QUOTE]

And item disappears from PE and then there is 1 less imk2 around..since no one can loot one

Brilliant :rolleyes: