Skill "slowdowns" after VU 7.5.

I post the graph with some information about skillchange after VU 7.4
As the graph says, the graphs are examples and should not be interpreted as being the actual experience graphs used in Project Entropia.

Anyway, there is some interesting data that I posted in red. The red numbers in this graph arn’t any information from Mindark, but it is from my assumptions.

Is there anybody who have found any data for skill slowdown this VU?

/Kjetil :cool:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/2/2/9/skillgraph.jpg

[QUOTE=Kjetil]
I post the graph with some information about skillchange after VU 7.4
As the graph says, the graphs are examples and should not be interpreted as being the actual experience graphs used in Project Entropia.

Anyway, there is some interesting data that I posted in red. The red numbers in this graph arn’t any information from Mindark, but it is from my assumptions.

Is there anybody who have found any data for skill slowdown this VU?

[/QUOTE]

I actually think the first red marker is not 960-1k, but somewhere around 500. If you remember, it used to be a slowdown there, but not as slow as any others. There was a thread recently on EF where somebody (I apologise I can’t recall his/her name right now) posted a mathematical formula based on some number crunching with GSI. Being a mathematician myself I played a bit with this formula and got another one, which looks very like the one Marco posted, but not yet exactly the same. I stopped doing this research I’ll tell you why.

While playing with numbers (and also remembering my personal hunting experience) I got a suspicion, that these ‘waves’ on the graph of new skillgain are there only to show, that the skillgain fluctuates randomly as a result of getting (ramdom) skill bonuses. The skillcurve itself is just an exponential function (I have a very good and very simple candidate for it, if you’re interested), and then there is just ramdomness on top, shown (just for the sake of showing it, without any exact numerical meaning) as a wavy pattern. Why? Because:

  1. skill bonuses seem to be completely random, at least as random as loot :slight_smile:

  2. according to my personal experience, within a short period of time (1-2 hours), skill gain can vary from 50% up to 200% of some average trajectory, because of skill bonuses (the info is based on several hundreds of 10-axe hunts throughout VU 7.5 :slight_smile: )

  3. the skillgain function used by MA has to be simple, as it’s been used all over the place in speedy response-critical parts of the system. Exponential decay with some simple coefficients would be more than enough.

  4. ok, here’s an ultimate one :laugh: : Marco said, ‘The graphs are examples and should not be interpreted as being the actual experience graphs used in Project Entropia.’ :wink:

Just my :twocents:

1 Like

There was also one at 90-100 :stuck_out_tongue:

I also like to “play” with numbers and I saw the other post. I guess I need to analyze it some more before I can draw any conclusions on some of my theories.

About numbers in my example, I know that after 3k, skills got very slow in general before VU 7.4 compared to before 2890 in skill.
Therefore I posted the numbers as it was. The 400-500 slowdown was not really that noticiable as the others, but the graph is like Marco told it. It only shows example.

With this post, I was interested in see if someone knows about “slowdowns” for some levels.

/Kjetil :cool:

But each skill seems need a different graphics…
:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Kjetil]
With this post, I was interested in see if someone knows about “slowdowns” for some levels.
[/QUOTE]

Ok, sorry, maybe I wasn’t clear enough: after doing a bit of research described above, IMHO there isn’t any well-defined slowdowns (as it used to be before 7.5), but just a randomness on top of slowly decreasing exponential function. And the variation of this randomness is quite significant (50%-200%-300% of the average trajectory) and it doesn’t seem to be bound to any sort of curve (the same way as loot pattern). Only IMHO, of course. :girl:

[QUOTE=elisa]
The skillcurve itself is just an exponential function (I have a very good and very simple candidate for it, if you’re interested)
[/QUOTE]

Yes, very much interested! Can you tell us the candidate?

[QUOTE=Daar]
Yes, very much interested! Can you tell us the candidate?
[/QUOTE]

Ok, that’s the candidate I got:
The core skill rate curve is: s(x) = 100+1000EXP(-0.0006x), where x - current skill level.
When I say ‘core rate’ I mean that the real rate would be something like:
rr(x) = a*s(x)+b, where a and b - some coefficients.

As an example, I’ve tried to simulate a curve from Marco’s chart, and that’s a possible approximation:

s1(x) = 100+1000* EXP(-0.0006x)(0.7+0.3*COS((x+250)/80))

I’ve plotted this function on top of Marco’s chart and here’s the result:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/9/2/0/CoreSkillRate_thumb.jpg[size=1][br]Click to enlarge[/br][/size]

The purple line is s(x) and the red curvy line is s1(x).
Don’t worry about the first 300 positions, they are taken from some different function to provide a desired effect.
It’s a close enough approximation, taking into account that both graphs are made in Excel and therefore aren’t guaranteed to me geometrically correct (as it can use datapoints, not real coordinates).
It would be a bit difficult to apply this function to GSI research case, trying to find the right coefficients, because it seems MA doesn’t caclulate the value of the skillrate function on the fly, but rather has a table of precalculated values of integral taken of s(x) for some levels. Therefore GSI research cannot give exact numbers.

I’d say the main result of this research is the coefficient -0.0006 and the fact the skillrate doesn’t seem to go down to 0, which proves the statement of unlimited skill levels possible. The rest is just mix and match.

So coming back to randomness factor, IMHO s(x) function is just a good representation of overall skill rate situation, but the real skill gain (for certain fixed weapon/mob/time/whatever other factor would be something like
SR(x, t, F) = R(t, F)*s(x)
where
x - current skill level
t - time
F - combination of equipment/mob/other factors present
and R is a random function, let’s say changing within [0.25, 1.75] interval (just guessing).
:laugh:
P.S. I’m actually mixing up the skillgain rate and GSI curve in this post, but you as gifted students surely know that the first derivative of the forementioned curve has the same shape as s(x), but with different coefficient, so it doesn’t really matter which one to study. :wise:

3 Likes

[QUOTE=elisa]
Ok, that’s the candidate I got:
The core skill rate curve is: s(x) = 100+1000EXP(-0.0006x), where x - current skill level.
When I say ‘core rate’ I mean that the real rate would be something like:
rr(x) = a*s(x)+b, where a and b - some coefficients.

As an example, I’ve tried to simulate a curve from Marco’s chart, and that’s a possible approximation:

s1(x) = 100+1000* EXP(-0.0006x)(0.7+0.3*COS((x+250)/80))

I’ve plotted this function on top of Marco’s chart and here’s the result:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/9/2/0/CoreSkillRate_thumb.jpg[size=1][br]Click to enlarge[/br][/size]

The purple line is s(x) and the red curvy line is s1(x).
Don’t worry about the first 300 positions, they are taken from some different function to provide a desired effect.
It’s a close enough approximation, taking into account that both graphs are made in Excel and therefore aren’t guaranteed to me geometrically correct (as it can use datapoints, not real coordinates).
It would be a bit difficult to apply this function to GSI research case, trying to find the right coefficients, because it seems MA doesn’t caclulate the value of the skillrate function on the fly, but rather has a table of precalculated values of integral taken of s(x) for some levels. Therefore GSI research cannot give exact numbers.

I’d say the main result of this research is the coefficient -0.0006 and the fact the skillrate doesn’t seem to go down to 0, which proves the statement of unlimited skill levels possible. The rest is just mix and match.

So coming back to randomness factor, IMHO s(x) function is just a good representation of overall skill rate situation, but the real skill gain (for certain fixed weapon/mob/time/whatever other factor would be something like
SR(x, t, F) = R(t, F)*s(x)
where
x - current skill level
t - time
F - combination of equipment/mob/other factors present
and R is a random function, let’s say changing within [0.25, 1.75] interval (just guessing).
:laugh:
P.S. I’m actually mixing up the skillgain rate and GSI curve in this post, but you as gifted students surely know that the first derivative of the forementioned curve has the same shape as s(x), but with different coefficient, so it doesn’t really matter which one to study. :wise:
[/QUOTE]

U don’t really expect us to pay attention reading this … what u are trying to prove now :wise: :banghead: is that I should have paid more attention in my quantitative methods lectures from uni cos if I had, I would be able to understand PE skillgains better … . :rolleyes: omg …

I would say the first slowdown is at 500 or so, and that would account for the biggest drop in skill gains… the first one. I just got Marksmanship, and very quickly got to 500… in a matter of less than 200 Rifle and Handgun skills.

After that it slows down a lot… so the 2nd slowdown would be at 950 or so.

There is a chance the first slowdown is at 100, but I don’t think so… It still goes up pretty fast up to 500…but it may be an idea to buy some skill chips and see…

If anyone is willing to sponsor me some skill chips I’ll investigate further, on my friend’s brand new avatar :slight_smile:

Thanks for posting that Elisa! And Ajack, he’s not trying to prove anything, he just kindly responded to my request. I understand his reply perfectly, and I am sure there are plenty of other geeks here that do. I think his formula is a decent aproximation, and it can actually help me determine wether my recent drop in skillgains from argonaut young is just a logical effect of the reduced skillgains when on a higher level, or that I need to upgrade to tougher mobs or better equipment. Or as Elisa says, if F is the factor here :dunce:

Here are some data from scanning human, I wanted to test the new skill system so I thught I shuld do it with a skill from lvl 0, for this test I used the tt scanner and here are the results (lvls in scanning human)

1:st scanner
lvl 0 - 221
2:nd
221 - 357
3:rd
357 - 443
4:th
443 - 505 (this seem to bee the first slowdown)
5:th
505 - 562
6:th
562 - 622
7:th
622 - 702
8:th
702 - 782
9:th
782 - 864
9:th
864 - 921
10:th
921 - 968 (second slowdown start aprox 950)
11:th
968 - 1003
thats all I have for you Kjetil, hope you get a litle bit wiesser after this

1 Like

[QUOTE=Swede]
Here are some data from scanning human, I wanted to test the new skill system so I thught I shuld do it with a skill from lvl 0, for this test I used the tt scanner and here are the results (lvls in scanning human)
[/QUOTE]

excellent :slight_smile: thanks for putting your money and time into this :slight_smile:

I put the data you’ve provided into some charts, and it looks kinda interesting … but I think more input data would be needed to make any good assumptions and theories on the new skilling system … also there can’t be anything seen here on secondary skill gains for example … best would probably be to make a complete noob avatar and start skilling longblades on him (perhaps until he completes discipleship), record all the relevant skills after each axe (maybe even the average damage from using something like 50 or so axes), and have a look at it afterwards.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/1/6/2/6/scanning1_thumb.jpg[size=1][br]Click to enlarge[/br][/size]

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/1/6/2/6/scanning2_thumb.jpg[size=1][br]Click to enlarge[/br][/size]