Moving SMA forward. Thoughts required?

Entropia Universe Economy General Economy Discussion
1

Ahh, the oasis of calm :wink:

Thought I would post this here as it won’t be drowned out by the 7.1 angst on EP :smiley:

As you know my big ambition in PE is to build a Real Life company that works in a Virtual Universe/Game. Its a way of exploring the issues involved.

Well I took one step in the beginning at the end of 2004 when I incorporated a real company at the regulatory body here in the UK.

Whilst the company is actually for another project I have it can be repurposed for other uses and my intention is to tie SMA in some way with the company.

Been debating it for sometime, I’m still not quite sure if PE is ready for this. Had hoped to do this earlier but theres always been hiccoughs along the way. It certainly won’t make big bucks yet especially with the interesting happenings in the loot, but its more an experiment to explore issues that are bound to occur.

Think PE is getting there, but I sometimes use to say that SMA’s time isn’t here yet in PE. But who knows maybe I’ll get SMA’s logo in those large banners next to Omegatron in Hade C :wink:

2

It would be great to see companies run by the players. Would be great to have “jobs” for ppl too.

DD
:evilking:

3

You know what i would love to see SMC do and i’d support it along with a couple other soc i’m allied with too i think.

Say SMC member buy all materials(tailioring, enmater,minerals) at a fixed low cost in any amount. Then resell in larger amounts at a fixed avg going rate.

To me this is what would happen and how it would work. Me and 3 soc m8’s go hunting and we get some wools and hides in like the amounts of 10-20 or so. We can’t be bothered to try and sell 10 wool for a “good” avg market price. So we sell it to SMC for a bit lesser then avg market for convience. Then say someone else in my soc needed wool they would then buy it from SMC and get it at the avg price. SMC would make a bit of profit. To me the big factor would be. If people knew that they could come to SMC and sell there small quanties at a fixed rate they would(at least i would). Also if they knew they could always go to SMC to get it at a fixed avg market cost instead of bid waring for it or paying high prices out of desperation they would also frequent them instead of paying the higher price.

To me this would stabalize markets because nobody would pay 10% in auction or from a player if they knew they could get it from SMC.

The question is would MA be unahappy with this kind of market control. To me i would be ok with it because SMC has been along for a long time and i dont belive would ever abuse this power.

Be nice if MA did this sort of thing too :wink:

Mabey this idea is a little to crazy as it’s a little close to that burelli guy’s idea. But Burelli is a newb and realy who could trust him i’d trust SMC over him.

4

Sounds very interesting Aziphirael :slight_smile:
My immediate question when reading this post, however, was as follows…
if there is one rl company of any sort involved in PE, then what is prohibiting more rl companies from joining the game for the explicit reason to capitalize on the virtual world? And if this happens… what are the immediate and long term ramifications?

5

[QUOTE=RexDameon]
You know what i would love to see SMC do and i’d support it along with a couple other soc i’m allied with too i think.

Say SMC member buy all materials(tailioring, enmater,minerals) at a fixed low cost in any amount. Then resell in larger amounts at a fixed avg going rate.

To me this is what would happen and how it would work. Me and 3 soc m8’s go hunting and we get some wools and hides in like the amounts of 10-20 or so. We can’t be bothered to try and sell 10 wool for a “good” avg market price. So we sell it to SMC for a bit lesser then avg market for convience. Then say someone else in my soc needed wool they would then buy it from SMC and get it at the avg price. SMC would make a bit of profit. To me the big factor would be. If people knew that they could come to SMC and sell there small quanties at a fixed rate they would(at least i would). Also if they knew they could always go to SMC to get it at a fixed avg market cost instead of bid waring for it or paying high prices out of desperation they would also frequent them instead of paying the higher price.

To me this would stabalize markets because nobody would pay 10% in auction or from a player if they knew they could get it from SMC.

The question is would MA be unahappy with this kind of market control. To me i would be ok with it because SMC has been along for a long time and i dont belive would ever abuse this power.

Be nice if MA did this sort of thing too :wink:

Mabey this idea is a little to crazy as it’s a little close to that burelli guy’s idea. But Burelli is a newb and realy who could trust him i’d trust SMC over him.
[/QUOTE]

Well we already do this kind of thing already :slight_smile: Still needs tweaking at the moment. But by and large I tend to hang around in Hades C and will just about accept most things like hides, wools etc…

I do try and keep my sell prices reasonable, by and large keep to a 15% rule, that says my margin for selling stuff is only 15% above what I buy it. And theres crafters I know who would be interested in stuff in bulk if I can supply it. And for me thats the key, decent prices is the key for long term prosperity rather the price gouging you sometimes see.

I do try and keep a price list up to date at:
http://sama.kayatana.com/index.php?title=Marketplace

But I also try and arrange trading deals at the soc level which helps a lot. So if you’re interested gimme a buzz :wink: Usually with bulk I tend to agree to a fix rate for a load of stuff as its easier to calculate in the trade window :wink:

Always interested in how socs can work together or being to buy stuff in regular amounts from people.

6

[QUOTE=Svetlana]
Sounds very interesting Aziphirael :slight_smile:
My immediate question when reading this post, however, was as follows…
if there is one rl company of any sort involved in PE, then what is prohibiting more rl companies from joining the game for the explicit reason to capitalize on the virtual world? And if this happens… what are the immediate and long term ramifications?
[/QUOTE]

Tax Man probably wants a cut :wink:

I think it could be interesting in some ways. I’ve seen the backlash and complaints that are raise with regards to IGE ( www.ige.com ) who trade items and cash in other MMoRPG. Although interestingly they’ve steered clear of PE so far.

I think with PE’s real cash economy, most likely people will start to get intrigued by the possibilities. I did talk to one guy who was interested in starting up a venture in PE and was willing to invest US$10,000. But decided that PE’s infrastructure wasn’t ready yet.

At the same time, MA could earn cash in some ways from “companies” in PE. For example, I would be interested in advertising SMA on a bilboard in Hadesheim that says where our shop location is. Happy to pay something towards that if I felt I could get good awareness of SMA.

There will always be problems when things become more commercial, you’ll probably see parts of the community whine about, others will talk about it being the free market etc… etc…

I don’t think it really matters in some ways :smiley: What matters is giving something new a go :wink:

7

I’ll have to find you at hades C i know i do see you there a lot. Mabey we can work somethings out.

8

I hear the lawyers walking down from their office in Hades C. They got 6k in lying, 8k in fast talk, and 11k in “we’ll shut down your business now”.

Anyhow, I like the idea. And if you want, I will gladly propose the idea for my soc, so we have someone to sell to. We have been talking about how bad it is to sell so much to the TT, when in reality there are always someone who needs it. Just takes time to find them. So if someone finally takes the initiative to start the machine, things could get more controlled at least.

I’m probably off-topic with this, but are you thinking about buying from everyone, or just buying from socs, selling to everybody? That way Hades C will stay free of most of the newcommers for a while.

My mind likes the idea of PA/Twin being the free markets, and Hades up north being the Center of capitalism.

9

[QUOTE=Aziphirael]

At the same time, MA could earn cash in some ways from “companies” in PE. For example, I would be interested in advertising SMA on a bilboard in Hadesheim that says where our shop location is. Happy to pay something towards that if I felt I could get good awareness of SMA.
[/QUOTE]

Not wanting to get off topic here… but I think this is a valid argument…
I would like to see advertising in game on billboards and such… :girl:
OK- sry… back to conversation :wink:

10

I think PE is still maybe a bit too small economy for companies…

Companies make business which means that they need to have their income from something. PE is very closed and… hmm… (I lack proper terms) “singular” economy.

In real life what you do is: A) offer services, B) transport goods to area where they sell more, C) tranform goods into something more valuable.

Only thing that works in PE is A. Teleports and auction make sure that everything costs about as much everywhere. And refining and crafting isnt (yet) any business for companies. Later on there might be manufacturing companies that could turn raw materials into equipment but without old style component crafting there’s no need for companys for crafters.

So actually reselling service seems to be only working in PE. And because PE is still somewhat small its common that ppl sell their raw materials directly to crafters. Clearly because company would take some % from the price, its very advantageous for both, crafters and hunters/miners, to be in direct contact. The % company takes would need to be very low but that would need huge volume in trading.

I think when it would be around 1-3% I would start to use reselling companies. Thus for 100 peds raw material I would be ready to pay 1-3 peds to avoid looking for buyer (pretty equal to auction price). That would of course mean that company would need thousands of peds volumes per day to make reasonable profit (and tolerate possible price drops).

11

[QUOTE=Shadow-Ale]

Anyhow, I like the idea. And if you want, I will gladly propose the idea for my soc, so we have someone to sell to. We have been talking about how bad it is to sell so much to the TT, when in reality there are always someone who needs it. Just takes time to find them. So if someone finally takes the initiative to start the machine, things could get more controlled at least.

I’m probably off-topic with this, but are you thinking about buying from everyone, or just buying from socs, selling to everybody? That way Hades C will stay free of most of the newcommers for a while.

[/QUOTE]

Well Hades C has become bit of the SMA HQ these days :smiley: I think its partly because I like to try and set a time and place where people will know with 90% certainty that I’m going to be there.

So yes if you are a soc or individual who wants to find a regular buyer or your materials than I’ll always be interested.

It was the original plan for SMA, especially in the old days of component trading. I was finding people TT’ing components, whereas they could have been used by crafters. So set myself up to buy components and to sell them to crafters who needed them. I’ve been trying the same approach with materials and things like ore as well, think there is potential as I know lots of people who either TT their stuff. Or they are looking for stuff but spend ages trying to find it.

Personally I do prefer the soc level agreements, as it means that as a soc you can collect all your stuff into one and sell that on. Also soc level means that you have more power to retain stuff, sometimes its hard to be an individual and you out of peds but have 200peds of stuff but want to shift it. In socs that problem can be tempered by every body working together.

I think PE is still maybe a bit too small economy for companies…

Yeah it is I don’t deny it :wink: One way around this I’ve found is that you need to expand outside of the game. For example pre-gold SMC did a lot of ped trading. In fact I think it contributed to perhaps 50% of our 500,000ped turnover.

Whilst I enjoy the retail aspects, I do think about other avenues. I have done Loans secured by items and mortgages for property. And also came to an arrangement with Gaming Open Market to trade peds there when they use to support PE. So I think there are opportunities :smiley: But I do agree that in some ways PE isn’t ready for SMA in the full on company sense :wink:

12

I think the general aggreement here is that SMA isn’t really ready for the “big time” so to speak but I’d say best to hang in there. It doesn’t “sound” like PE will fall away any time soon so things can only get better really.

Without going too OT the level of customisation required for advertising is one of the main things lacking from PE wrt businesses. It won’t be prioritised though as the majority of players “follow the loop” so to speak and don’t look at other ways to make things better such as companies or trade aggreements. What SMA lacks is a sign in game that says what its all about.

On a slightly more personal note Az we need to work out a way that the size of SMA can help the business. I realise that the whole trust thing is pretty important as we need people we can really work with. There ought to be a reason to be in SMA that attracts the right type of people but isn’t such a carrot dangling on a stick that people “sign up for free ice cream”.

At the moment the only reason I’m in SMA is the good rep, ease of talking to you in soc chat and last but not least il cause hes such a nice chap! :tongue2: I do find it a little lonely when theres never anyone about but I guess I should go and meet some other people in game really :wise: It would be nice if we didn’t have to worry about timezones really :silly2:

13

[QUOTE=Aziphirael]
Well we already do this kind of thing already :slight_smile: Still needs tweaking at the moment. But by and large I tend to hang around in Hades C and will just about accept most things like hides, wools etc…

I do try and keep my sell prices reasonable, by and large keep to a 15% rule, that says my margin for selling stuff is only 15% above what I buy it. And theres crafters I know who would be interested in stuff in bulk if I can supply it. And for me thats the key, decent prices is the key for long term prosperity rather the price gouging you sometimes see.

I do try and keep a price list up to date at:
http://sama.kayatana.com/index.php?title=Marketplace

But I also try and arrange trading deals at the soc level which helps a lot. So if you’re interested gimme a buzz :wink: Usually with bulk I tend to agree to a fix rate for a load of stuff as its easier to calculate in the trade window :wink:

Always interested in how socs can work together or being to buy stuff in regular amounts from people.
[/QUOTE]

Looooong quotes…

BAHQ need a constant buyer of bulks ores/hides/wool etc

We have buyers but need a constant we can rely on :wink:

Drop me a PM we can meet in game :slight_smile: