In-game jobs, and resposibility to make them

Entropia Universe Economy General Economy Discussion
1

Ok, Shadow-Ale is about to rant some again. These are thoughts I made while having a fight with a soc-mate.

It all started with fairness. Was it fair that you could sweat for free? It’s a lousy job, but it gets things going. Most of us have done it. Many see it as the bottom of the ladder, but must also admitt it’s important. Sweat gets ME to the top. Remove the bottom, and the ladder fails.

MA have not to this day created in-game jobs as far as I know. And as I always say, it ain’t their job either. They create the tools, and it’s up to us to use them. I wanted to test this out in practice. Found myself a newcommer, a random one, a spanish boy that’s 15. Nice fella it seemed, so I took my little risk, and told him that I wasn’t going to give him free peds or weapons, but a job. As long as he was online, he would do chores for me. I started with testing his trading-skills. Gave him some ore and a fap, and told him that I wanted that sold for x peds, and everything above that was his. The good boy sold and I think he earned himself 3 or 4 peds in under an hour. And I profited as well. In some peoples eyes I lost 3 or 4 peds, in my eyes I didn’t. I never got them. Meanwhile I was out mining, and found more ore. I told the chap to get to my location, and he did. I got my money, he got more ore, and so on. Now I have a couple of these newcommers. They help me if I’m encumbured, or if I need ammo in the field. At the same time, I help them get a start in this game, so I don’t feel bad about having them do what some would concider dirty-work.

If people wasn’t so obsessed in making the most peds possible, things could change a lot. There are hundreds of job-opertunities out there, you just have to grab them. I know when taming comes, I’ll have dedicated fruit-finders ready. When, and if, lending becomes a possibility, I’m gonna set up a business. And I want people to work for me. Not because it makes me do less, but because I see the possibilities in this. Just the fact that I can mine 24/7 without having to visit a terminal is in fact a dream. Not that I can afford this today, but I don’t think it’s too far away.

[Don’t mind this line, as Devil Doll ponited out bellow, gambling is] illegalHave /* anyone set up any betting in-game? There is a possibility in itself. “When will the unique be found?” is an example. “What will the unique be?”. */

Then it boils down to one thing mentioned in another thread: trust. Trust will be a big issue, and it is in real life. The problem is, rl have rules and laws, pe don’t to the same degree. you aren’t insured that your employer pays you, in real life you have a guarantee (in most cases anyway). But MA could provide us with means that would make trust a lesser issue, f.ex. with reputation.

There will always be lots of people wanting to do a decent job, and this way the economy will flow more freely. Do you dare to take the first step?

1 Like
2

Just one thing so you are aware. Gambling is prohibited by MA.

Other than that I think your ideas are great. Sterling & Moss has been quite successfull at running a business. Maybe Aziphrael will comment on this thread.

DD
:evilking:

3

ahh, ok, then I stand corrected :slight_smile:

4

[QUOTE=Devil Doll]
Just one thing so you are aware. Gambling is prohibited by MA.
DD
:evilking:
[/QUOTE]

yeah right…

go out with 50 ped ammo and a weapon you can’t handle properly… that’s gambling…

if u don’t think it’s gambling yet… head back and get other 50 ped ammo… and again, and again… just a huge casino :stuck_out_tongue:

5

Project Entropia is gambling…

6

i think that goes into another thread :wink:

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[QUOTE=Shadow-Ale]
i think that goes into another thread :wink:
[/QUOTE]

back to the topic

when i was young(er)… i was thinking about jobs and sweat and stuff like that… everyone has

if there is another pe-player (other than you) who will offer jobs to noobs and pay them a decent fee… raise ur hand

if you can get more than 10 hands up.. then u can ask for a job system… till then… good luck with your own noob helping business

1 Like
8

I’d say those of us who want to do it, should do so - and I’ll bet they’ll do well. There is a reason that cooperative ventures work.

I’ll be having a few jobs of my own to offer soon - after I get the ball rolling on an idea I had today. We’ll see how it all works out.

9

I get asked quite a lot for jobs, people asking for items I’d usually “TT” of which there are none, unless they are TT items.

The problem I have is there are very few jobs I have available, and those that I do are extremely rare.

Need stuff sold? Even “TT Food” goes through my shops at a small profit within a week.

Helpers to transport stuff? Have a TP chip, all TP’s and usually hunt near one anyway (melee weapons wear out rather fast)…

About the only job I need is information collection, and usually the info I need a new player has a hard time coming across.

Of course that’s just my situation, others could definitely use traders to move their low value stuff that’s not feasible to auction. Miners can use trustworthy helpers to guard them (or play decoy) and carry ore.

Fruit & Sweat gathering is also a ‘job’, however all my disciples got bored of it after a couple of days and deposited, even though I paid them well at the time :slight_smile:

The last business I remember that attempted jobs for newcomers was “Two Raven Services”, however after some period of time they just up and vanished - partly due to game changes (runners became less useful when mobs realised someone else was shooting them) though.

Aziphirael and his Sterling & Moss crew do quite well for themselves, however they are trading on a large and diverse scale and have the intimate, long-term knowledge of the market needed to succeed.
A new arrival lacks that knowledge, however most dabble in it on a very small scale anyway.

I believe the big question is - what types of jobs are out there?
What do people need doing and what would they be prepared to pay?

  • Deathifier
1 Like
10

[QUOTE=Shadow-Ale]
you aren’t insured that your employer pays you, in real life you have a guarantee (in most cases anyway). But MA could provide us with means that would make trust a lesser issue, f.ex. with reputation.
[/QUOTE]

It works the other way too… if i give some items to a noob in order to have them sell, i can’t be sure that he’ll give me back the money after having it sold. i know it’s kinda stupid to do that since, if a ppl is honest, he’ll have more job in the future, hence, more opportunities to make money. but some ppl don’t think that way and see only instant profit.

But, basically, i agree with you that jobs need to be created by us and MA “just” have to make the tools available :wink:
Also, like always, Deathifier makes a good point when he says :

But this question is the basics when you try to create a successful business. Either you find what the ppl need or you create a need, though the second one is a little bit harder :slight_smile:

11

Hi all :smiley: Thought I would pop my head in and say a few things :wink:

I do agree with the sentiments in this thread that Jobs are key to a successful economy. I suspect it will be up to us to create those jobs.

I think Jobs can be created, however, it won’t be a employer/employee relationship, at least not yet. PE isn’t ready for that kind of obligation, the issues or trust and integrity all comes into play.

One of the things I try and do in PE is to try and push the boundaries of business further. And I have tried the employer/employee methodology. The old SMA use to have a 100 ped salary for members. However, it didn’t really work and so SMA has evolved into what the “A” represents in Sterling & Moss Associates :slight_smile: SMA is more of a loose trading association.

Members build their own networks, but there is also the advantages, like being able to sell their own stuff on the shops with a small fee to cover decay. Plus advice and also I’m on hand in case a member needs to sell something because they have bought too much. Plus we are all very nice people :wink:

My current model for employment is to buy production from people. I’m a retailer, the shops are hungry and they need constant stocking up :smiley: To do this, I now have a range of crafters and other producers who can sell me bulk products on a regular basis. This I think is what will form the basis of the current types of employment in PE. And I think its a good thing. If there are regular avenues for production, then the flows of capital in the economy increases, helping people to prosper a bit more.

My economy of scales are huge and so I can hold onto products for 4 or 5 months until the upturn. It can be argued that this is pretty much like the production lines in modern manufacturing, they work 24/7 and constantly churn out products to be consumed by the public.

The big issue, but one for another thread, is that I do feel that if this is the route PE takes, then we need permanent decay to make it work.

12

[QUOTE=Deathifier]
The problem I have is there are very few jobs I have available, and those that I do are extremely rare.

Need stuff sold? Even “TT Food” goes through my shops at a small profit within a week.

Helpers to transport stuff? Have a TP chip, all TP’s and usually hunt near one anyway (melee weapons wear out rather fast)…
[/QUOTE]

I’ve thought about this for a long, long time and as best I can tell Deathifier is on the problem. It’s not that there is a lack of suppy of workers, it’s that there is minimal to no availability of work needed. There is vitually nothing that experienced players would benefit by someone doing something for thme. It’s acutally easier to do it yourself than to find someone to do it.

I think once MA makes it harder for an experienced player to do everything for themselves and therefor need to find help, THEN we will find a job market develope.

1 Like
13

I do agree with Dino, I would be glad to employ a new player to do jobs for me as I would help save me time and give them a way of getting money without begging or sweating but and this is the big but I have notthing that a new player could realy do for me.

14

Would be nice if you could assign n00bs for work.

Like assign them, and then give them a weapon and some ammo so they could go out hunting for you (skill hunting), then all skills and loot would go to yourself, but MA taking about 10% of the skills just as with the skill selling system.

(items given to the worker should ofcourse be “locked” so he couldnt sell them or use it himself, and you should be able to click a button to get it all back if he doesnt do the work within a reasonable time.)

The worker could have some button where he could set himself in “Work-mode”, when in work-mode only the stuff given by the employer would be available in inventory, he could then hunt and gain skills and loot for his employer.

I would like giving some n00b some payment for him to craft stuff while im mining, i would get all skills minus 10% for MA and all “loot”, the n00b would get his payment from me.

…and some bonus if he hoffed :smiley:

15

There would be great if we could have prize fights in the rings - making a gladiator profession :dunce:

so pple can bet, but that would be “gambling” would it?

16

[QUOTE=cacail]
It works the other way too… if i give some items to a noob in order to have them sell, i can’t be sure that he’ll give me back the money after having it sold. i know it’s kinda stupid to do that since, if a ppl is honest, he’ll have more job in the future, hence, more opportunities to make money. but some ppl don’t think that way and see only instant profit.
[/QUOTE]

Sadly, there are people out there like that. The thing is, even IRL you have to extend trust to your employees. Although RL has recourse such as court, police, etc. if someone rips you off, the risk is also much greater. Something like what Shadow-Ale did isn’t a big risk for most reasonably established players, especially if you spend a little time getting to know the noob first.

[QUOTE=cacail]
But this question is the basics when you try to create a successful business. Either you find what the ppl need or you create a need, though the second one is a little bit harder :slight_smile:
[/QUOTE]

Why is it so hard? That’s what the entire Fashion industry does every year :slight_smile:

In a truly free laizzez-faire economy, most “jobs” actually are independent contractors making deals with other independent contractors. Entropia is about the closest to a laizzez-faire economy that I have ever seen, so I’d say that is probably the model to follow.

Contracting exclusively with one employer would be the equivalent of having a “job”. But employers should expect their contractors to moonlight :slight_smile:

Like I said… :slight_smile:

Sweating comes to mind. But, again, we get back to the independent contractor model.

Direct in-game functions won’t work for jobs. They’ll have to be created from other approaches.

For example: if I could make money off PE movies, I would have no hesitation hiring “actors” to play in them. I’m just trying to figure out a way to accomplish the first half of this equation :slight_smile:

If my race events prove successful, then I will be hiring Race Representatives to assist in larger events.

These are some examples. Get creative - I’m sure there are plenty of others, if you can think of them!

17

Contracts is mentioned. I see a huge possibility if we got that in-game. Say, we get a template, and we fill in the job. I’ll scetch an example:

Worker Name: Firewolf
Employer: Shadow-Ale

Date of contract: 06-04-05
End of Contract: 08-04-05

Assignment:

Collect 1000 iron ore within the timelimit. Prize must not exceed tt+130%

Payment: 10 ped if completed within timelimit, then -1 ped for every hour overdue.

Sign

Shadow-Ale Firew0lf

18

[QUOTE=Shadow-Ale]
Contracts is mentioned. I see a huge possibility if we got that in-game. Say, we get a template, and we fill in the job. I’ll scetch an example:
[/QUOTE]

or…

Worker Name: Open to Public
Employer: Devil Doll

Date of contract: 06-04-05
End of Contract: 08-04-05

Assignment:

Pk Faustain and Knuckles.

Payment: 100 ped if completed within timelimit.

Sign

Devil Doll Open to public

DD
:evilking:

19

[QUOTE=Devil Doll]
or…

Worker Name: Open to Public
Employer: Devil Doll

Date of contract: 06-04-05
End of Contract: 08-04-05

Assignment:

Pk Faustain and Knuckles.

Payment: 100 ped if completed within timelimit.

Sign

Devil Doll Open to public

DD
:evilking:
[/QUOTE]

I would think that beeing able to pk Faustian would take more then 100 peds in ammo, fap and armordecay :wink:

20

If we got a job-terminal, people could put up free jobs there, for people to grab. The need to do things efficiantly will be even more important in such cases.

Just think of the possibilities of revenge