Thank you for your work. I returned to the game in May of 2020. Since then I have more than doubled my total skills and and almost doubled my hp. To do this I cycled roughly 8M PED hunting 80-100 hours a week having read Messi’s story. I mean I have seriously been doing presentations to my board of directors while hunting, I have been that committed.
I have most definitely experienced what you are describing and my findings match yours almost exactly. In terms of animal looter I went from 23 animal to 67 over that time.
I keep a stable of five mobs I’ve cycled 90% of that money on. The increase in average loot over 20 months has been almost exactly linear when you remove the outliers and track it against animal looter increases.
One thing I have noticed when I add outlier loot back in is that over that period my tt return was near 100% (97.x%). When I remove the outliers it drops to roughly 93.5%.
The interesting thing is I TT almost everything (80%) I loot. So my numbers are representative of mostly no MU returns (TT). The short version is I’m a hit hunter as opposed to profit hunter. Because of my huge cycle I get rare loots and Ubers which compensate for my lack of markup. Do I find myself down 30-40k in a month sometimes? Sure I do. But I also find myself up that much too in certain months. For instance in September I lost 19K. From October first to 12-31, I ended up profiting 37K for a net gain of roughly 18K. The faith enters in that equation by keeping me shooting trusting the law of averages applies to everything.
Now add in smart equipment purchasing and rare item loots and over my lifetime (born 10-5-2005) my return is right about 112%.
I was wondering if I was alone in my findings. Thanks to you and your work now I know I’m not.
It’s not tested here but my observations with just comparing with friends (low accuracy on the numbers) tells me that dpp is what decides this just as stated by ma.
we did record a similar result with looter lvl where both the bad and the good efficiency was higher than looter. So looter lvl played the same part no matter what efficiency was used.
To OP: Thank you for the post, but nothing new I already did not know about; your assertions kind of match mine.
I find it laughable people can claim 86% is the base return whilst hypocritically asking me where I get 90% from?
I wouldn’t say that is totally accurate or a lost cause as you’re competing in the same realm as those who are hunting the same mobs as you. That is what keeps it even whilst competitive; who are those hunting the same mob as you will determine how the loot will get distributed, DPP, EFF, looter etc.
Again, I wouldn’t say for that to be the case, more like when Looter professions got introduced, they silently nerfed the efficiency scale. If anything, MA has given everyone at any level a chance now to get stable returns as it’s no longer efficiency dependant, so this was an excellent idea, not a negative one.
Again, you have a very pessimistic outlook on the situation, hunting isn’t complicated, and you don’t have to lose so much TT% to even bother. My data does not even correlate to the data presented in OP. I am 65.2% Eff / Lv22 Looter = 92% TT? Yet I have a net return of 97-98%, figures! Learn to test things.
A new hunter can still make it work, but it does take a bit of work to get going; I totally agree! If you can’t even profit on a low-level scale, you will never be able to scale that through mid or high-level hunting, learn the craft from the ground up, and you will see wonders you never thought possible.
I actually recommend people go the economy enhancer route at the highest tier possible; forget high EFF weps; they are way overpriced and too hyped.
See the above comment; get the highest eff setup you can afford; I’d focus on the economy enhancers route whilst using low use/min items.
So the moral of the story is to play as best as you can for the least amount of ped as you can per kill, removing unnecessary costs, mu and no dmg decay.
Economy enhancers improve damage per pec (-1% per enhancer slot), but does not do anything for efficiency. Therefore, if you are looking to improve tt return %, economy enhancers would have no effect. It nets you more kills per ped but at the cost of MU of the enhancers.
It used to be true that slower attack speed (but higher damage) weapons would produce more value per enhancer used. (You can get more damage out of a single weapon damage enhancer, for example). This was when enhancer break rate could be traced directly to the weapon level…
However, the last enhancer update changed this, and made enhancer break rate depend on the amount of benefits given. So this is no longer the case.
That’s exactly want you want to happen. More kills per ped spent means more chances for a higher loot multiplier. A lot of people don’t know this, codex is not only based on TT Input but it is also based on kills. If cost to kill is cheaper than the cycle required for that stage you get more skills for your buck. The cost of the enhancer is moot if it can help me go from 95% TT, and closer to 98% TT. What would an increase of 3% be worth to you? You do the maths, Sherlock, cause I don’t make comments for no reason.
If you reduce kill cost you also reduce the cost the multiplier gets multiplied by.
Your ‘chance’ to hit a certain multiplier doesn’t go up per mob, you are just killing more mobs. In the end you end up at the same tt return %. You might reduce some volatility but that’s it.
I think you have literally just contradicted, yourself here. Anyone else see anything wrong with this statement? See BOLD text. Maybe you are correct when mentioning damage enhancers but I was originally talking about economy enhancers, right? The avg MU is around 100.10% on rifles vs 100.60% for pistols. I have run multiple tests on this with multiple people. Try to see things beyond the items description and more for their utility vs loot system. Not everything is as labelled, hence this thread, right?
Codex is based on TT? Then prove it matey. I can factually tell you I got through the whole Exa codex whilst spending approximated 700 PED less than my peers.
Multipliers values are reduced because of cheaper kills, okay. But that doesn’t rule out a x1000 multiplier does it? Maybe you need to rethink your dogma a little. Sure the chance is rare to get a x1000 or even a x100 but there is still a chance, and as long as you are the better hunter on the same mob, the odds are more in your favour.
So if all it does as you say is decrease volatility, how am I above in terms of TT returns from your supposed 92% to my 98%, care to explain that one please?
I don’t see how I contradicted myself at all. Enhancer breakage rate used to be tied to weapon level (tested on damage and accuracy enhancers) prior to the enhancer breakage rate change most recently. Therefore, you can get similar number of uses on simiar dps weapons but have a slower weapon be able to apply more damage and therefore it will last longer.
Now, it is scaled based on dps and cycle. You get a certain amount of damage and cycle rate increase boost.
I’ll admit I’ve never run testing on eco enhancers, but I expect the impact to be based on cycle rate as well. If you have any data I’d be happy to see it. Given the breakage rate of eco enhancers ( I believe it is more than 10k uses now) and the probabilistic nature of how they break, you would need maybe 300-600 enhancers broken to get to the correct breakage rate.
You can ignore the blue and red moving average lines. Basically, the blue points represent tt% return for a particular 100k amount cycled. As you see, even with 100k cycled, I’m still having variations of more than 5% tt return between sets of 100k cycled (represents my volatility). Without knowing what you hunted and how much, my guess is you got a few very nice hits and that has held your tt average afloat, for now.
Then what is the TT amount based on, in order to clear the stage, what determines that process?
Hitting any multiplier that is above average will incrementally increase your TT returns over time. With enough kills this can lead to more multipliers to positively affect your returns. You won’t end up at the same TT%, I’ve already stated your theory doesn’t match my own criterias. Because the multipliers aren’t dependent of yourself but based on player participation. This is how TT positive runs can be achieved, drawing funds from previous or current active participants hunting the same mob.
As a seasoned player you should already know this is how the system operates.
Thanks, but I have my own version which is more accurate than that one but I somehow got to Rank 25 by spending less peds than is required to pass each stage.
The TT meant here is the TT COST, not returns of any kind… all the codex levels are multiples of the cost of the first level for whatever mob.
It’s been solid enough for me to now know my costs based on codex percentage gains…
Ok, I understand that. So if my cost to kill in stage 1 is 15% lower than most other hunters, that carries on towards the other later stages? If that’s true, it’s very interesting for me to know, thank you.
erm. nope. You might kill a last mob that takes you a bit into the next level, but that effect wears off as you go up.
The reward is also set at 0.5% of the cost to kill per level for the basic rewards you usually get, so you can also see from the potential reward what a level should cost. It has worked fine for me doing this.
Where do you see what other hunters are claiming as their costs? I’m not clear on that bit.
