It’s just a thought and I could be totally wrong :laugh:
nevertheless, I like to share my thoughts, this is how I see it…
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/1/skillgain2ei_thumb.jpg[size=1][br]Click to enlarge[/br][/size]
Greetz,
Tig
3 Likes
In response to modified version of your chart. I get good skill grow hunting on uper medium and high level mobs with MM, so keep working m8 ..
I think i think it’s right. If it’s saying what i think.
basically that there is a sort of balancing act. My thing is i think that loot is tying into skills that way too. Seems that when i’m getting good skills i get good loots too.
I said a while back that MA should give us more of a clue as to what weapons and mobs we should be hunting for our skill level. I think that the new system is the clue. If you are not getting much skill then change up until you do. I know that for me that is working with my low skills.
But i can’t say for the ppl that are in the high up skills.
[QUOTE=RexDameon]
I think i think it’s right. If it’s saying what i think.
basically that there is a sort of balancing act. My thing is i think that loot is tying into skills that way too. Seems that when i’m getting good skills i get good loots too.
.
[/QUOTE]
Ah you have also noticed this… yes, i am wondering how many others out their have noticed a similar finding as far as loots/skills.
Interesting theory Tigor. thx for the input 
As i read the Mob Contain no Loot Message was introduced to Reduce Server Lag i came to the conclusion the Loot is allready in the Mobs and is not Created on the Moment when Killed them. This Question keept me Busy for Months I not Belive there is a Loot on Skill Based Mod in the Mob Hunting Formula.
Im also Tink your Chart is not Right. I feel as Higher my Weapon and as Bigger the Mob and as Lower my Skills as greater the Expirience gain. To make it Short as more Unprofitable you Hunt as more Skill Gain you have. This is of Course not very Ped Rewarding but Skill Rewarding as it stated in the VU Text. This may not Work for all Items as we have read about the Scanners.
The Skill Gain is also not Reduced by 50 or 25% hes more Reduced to 20% if you Hit the 4k Border and on High Levels even more.
So i disagree completly with your Chart but i appreciate your Work. May you give us some Testing Facts you done to come to this Knowledge and maybe prove me wrong ?
[QUOTE=Fiona Simmons]
So i disagree completly with your Chart but i appreciate your Work. May you give us some Testing Facts you done to come to this Knowledge and maybe prove me wrong ?
[/QUOTE]
It are just my thoughts, based on my own little experience and the things i’ve read on forums, so no ‘facts’.
I agree that it isn’t right, nevertheless it maybe brings ideas to other people to make a better model.
[QUOTE=Svetlana]
Ah you have also noticed this… yes, i am wondering how many others out their have noticed a similar finding as far as loots/skills.
Interesting theory Tigor. thx for the input
[/QUOTE]
I’ve noticed too.
Thx
Thanks for your response and feedback
Greetz
Tig
[QUOTE=Fiona Simmons]
As i read the Mob Contain no Loot Message was introduced to Reduce Server Lag i came to the conclusion the Loot is allready in the Mobs and is not Created on the Moment when Killed them. This Question keept me Busy for Months I not Belive there is a Loot on Skill Based Mod in the Mob Hunting Formula.
[/QUOTE]
well not exactly - it would be logical to speculate that mob has 0 or 1 as for “loot” if you kill a mob that has 0 - client returns "No Loot MSG if the loot is 1 server calculates it and you get the loot window… so if there is no loot server has to make no calculation and shoots back the 0…
reason to think this way is strakkans post in ep about mining skills versa pull where he demonstrates that higher mining skills let him pull more stones in one pull hence get better “loot”. So, imo it is logical to think that this would be similar in hunting “loots” - better skills - better average loot.
[QUOTE=fresco]
reason to think this way is strakkans post in ep about mining skills versa pull where he demonstrates that higher mining skills let him pull more stones in one pull hence get better “loot”. So, imo it is logical to think that this would be similar in hunting “loots” - better skills - better average loot.
[/QUOTE]
Its the strike, not the pull that determines loot for miners isnt it. If you get a huge stike, better skills let you mine it faster, not mine more from it.
Miners, please correct me if I’m wrong here ..
Thanks
Az
[QUOTE=Azrael]
Its the strike, not the pull that determines loot for miners isnt it. If you get a huge stike, better skills let you mine it faster, not mine more from it.
Miners, please correct me if I’m wrong here ..
Thanks
Az
[/QUOTE]
you are wrong search for “Does Skills Matter” post in Entropia Pioneers for strakkan post. He posted the research there where he shows that he pulls 20% more stones per pull then the other guy (with 500 or so in mining)
[QUOTE=fresco]
you are wrong search for “Does Skills Matter” post in Entropia Pioneers for strakkan post. He posted the research there where he shows that he pulls 20% more stones per pull then the other guy (with 500 or so in mining)
[/QUOTE]
So what you’re saying is, stike amount is not set. You dont know how much you actually got until it all is extracted ? So is that when the HoF message is generated ? (on the final extraction)
Thanks
Az
[QUOTE=Fiona Simmons]
As i read the Mob Contain no Loot Message was introduced to Reduce Server Lag i came to the conclusion the Loot is allready in the Mobs and is not Created on the Moment when Killed them.
[/QUOTE]
Why? What is the connection?
From my perspective as a game programmer, I really don’t think the system would have been designed that way, as it creates too many issues. What happens when a server crashes? Where does all that loot go? The simplest design is to query a secure “loot server” or “economy server” during the loot event and return values at that time.
The reason we get “no loots” now is so that the MA servers are not as busy creating items (piles of pec, ped, hide, etc.) and then auto-merging them with other pec/ped/hide/etc. in your inventory. Those events cause strain on the MA servers as they manipulate databases through what I imagine is a fairly thick layer of security protocols.
As for the topic at hand “how the skill system works” I have this to offer:
The weapon you use is much, much more important than the mob you are hunting. As far as I can tell, the skills you gain only vary by the mob when considering the exp bonus you sometimes get after killing one. I have noticed plenty of skill gains when shooting very small mobs with a big guns.
1 Like
[QUOTE=Azrael]
So what you’re saying is, stike amount is not set. You dont know how much you actually got until it all is extracted ? So is that when the HoF message is generated ? (on the final extraction)
Thanks
Az
[/QUOTE]
according to strakkan this is how it looks…
(makes sence - if you get killed while pulling and for any reason not able to come back and finish the extraction…)
[QUOTE=truantduck]
Why? What is the connection?
From my perspective as a game programmer, I really don’t think the system would have been designed that way, as it creates too many issues. What happens when a server crashes? Where does all that loot go? The simplest design is to query a secure “loot server” or “economy server” during the loot event and return values at that time.
[/QUOTE]
yes and if the mob initially has 0 or 1 setup as whether or not it has loot it cuts the number of gueries down exactly x% where x is the percent of no loot mobs set by MA (imo as mob spawnes it spawnes with hidden “loot” attribute set to 0 or 1)
I too think that this new system is a way to find out what type of mob and what type of weapon is “right” for you. makes sense in my mind anyways…
now i just gotta find the right combo
+rep for Tigor 
Bigger wep and harder mobs = more skills
It sounds very unlikely you get less skills if you hunt a mob too hard for you.
Why would ma make such complicated programming?
The more turnover you generate, the more skills you gain.
Also I have seen nothing that indicates it.
Look at a newcomer fex. With a honor I gained insane amounts of skills when trying my gf’s noobie avatar. I gained less with axe and even more with enblade 13. More you waste, more skills you get.
And to repeat what I have said earlier, this new skillsystem is extremely unbalanced. Some skills at 2-4k are slower than others at 10k+ (combat sence)
I have hunted countless hours of hard mobs with big guns and this I gained:
8 lvl aim
0.2 lvl alertness
4.5 lvl combat reflex
8 lvl serendip
5 lvl courage
600 lvl handgun (1700-2300)
Just tonight I hunted 6 hours pretty constantly, lost some hundred peds and gained around 1 lvl in aim.
Frankly I think it`s crap even if I got some levels new players never will get in some skills, with this system.
I`we met the wall. Stagnation aint funny.
As far as loot is concerned it seems to me to all be generated at the kill. I can’t count how many times the lootserver has lagged behind the rest, when it’s running slow it dosen’t matter whether it’s a normal loot, a HOF, or a no loot message they all catch up at the same time when it responds again. I can kill 3 or 4 creatures and just “tag” each with the loot command and 1 of them will have loot and the other 3 won’t, I get all the messages at the same time, even if I’ve left radar range already.
I’ve been meaning to keep track of the skilling a little bit, the one thing I noticed was based on ammo. I was wondering the diff between my Bravo type and my MkII. I didn’t feel like counting shots so I decided to shoot 1k ammo with each gun (w/ a 105 amp). After 1k ammo on the MkII my rifle went up 12 levels (against atrax young mostly) and after 1k ammo on the Bravo rifle went up… 12 levels.
It was kind of … eh.. at first, but the cell usage of the bravo is over double the MkII (IIRC) so to get the same skill gain I fired at least half as many times. I thought the correlation between ammo usage and skillgain was kind of strange, so I’ve been meaning to explore that a little better
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The connection to this thread was, that Rexdamon and Svetlana said the loot improve with skills. I have no idea if my Little Theorie is right or wrong, but it wouldnt stress the Database at all if they just had a 1 Bit Information if they give Loot or not. Everyone hates the No Loot Message. I guess when it would possible MA would put it off and rebalance the Loots PE have a excellent Item Tracking that prevent any Loses during Crashes. After a Server Crash i have often Seen all Mobs got Reseted. So i guess they Simply Recreate all Mobs with Loots.
Of course i can wrong, and the Point about Mining is also a well one. Higher Skills = More Pulls but can you really adapt this 1 : 1 ? For Example , i looted as Newbie way better Average Loots as now with 3kish Combat Skills. I get more Good Items and more Globals but the Average Loot is more bad. So i can not Second this >Skills >Loots Theorie. I guess thats all a Matter of Belive ,)
There’s no reason to assign whether a mob has loot or not until it is killed. Giving it a 1 or 0 value may not take as much time as assigning a full loot, but think of how much time is wasted assigning loot values to mobs that drown themselves or are turreted or get stuck and auto kill or the player kills something and then dies himself or the servers crash and all the values have to be recalculated again. The only time you even need to know if a mob had loot is when a player initiated kill happens and they attempt to loot it. You’ll notice that the “this mob is claimed by someone else” messages don’t seem to come from the loot servers? They never lag behind. Just based on system response time (and basic thoughts of efficiency) we can be more than fairly certain that loots are not generated untill you actually try and loot the dead creature.
Mining isn’t something I could even guess at…
.. oh ya, and this is getting really off topic [SIZE=1]sorry …[/SIZE]
Since VU i have gained about 900 HG skills and a bit of BLP tech but as Moser mentioned in his post secondary skill raises like perception and aim were virtually nil. I started just before they stopped trapping and was pissed i missed out on getting huge skil raises by trap skilling when i was asleep, then with this VU im thinking damn my agility wil never get over 54. Im hoping it’s just a case of having to use some different types of equipment to get good raises in secondary skills. But its early days yet…if it really is a case of new players can never hope to catch up to players who skilled before 7.4 surely MA will have to fix it…
[QUOTE=Fiona Simmons]
@truantduck
The connection to this thread was, that Rexdamon and Svetlana said the loot improve with skills. I have no idea if my Little Theorie is right or wrong, but it wouldnt stress the Database at all if they just had a 1 Bit Information if they give Loot or not. Everyone hates the No Loot Message.
[/QUOTE]
Two things to clarify-
For one, Rex and I only said that we noticed there Might be some connection between loot and skills… just a hypothesis that requires a lot of testing… not a statement
Secondly, I have never minded the “no loot” message. Infact, most ppl I know that disliked it once when it began have accordingly understood why MA did it (for lag reasons) and have no problem with it as long as the actual loots that drop are evened out.