Efficiency & DPP explained

Entropia Universe Discussion Tutorials & Guides
1

There is still a lot of misinformation on the subject… so heres a small recap, hoping it shines some light on a subject that is unfortunately very vague for a lot of players.

[HEADING=2]:white_check_mark: What the devs say[/HEADING]

From the dev-notes for the “Loot 2.0” update:
[ul]
[li]It is explicitly stated that Efficiency is a relatively small component in loot value calculations — no more than ~7% of the total loot value.[/li][li]The dev-notes also say that “Optimal Loot” affects loot composition (i.e., what you loot), not loot value (i.e., how much you loot).[/li][li]One dev comment: > “Efficiency… directly affects average TT return by 0-7%” and “DPP (damage per PEC) affects loot composition.”[/li][/ul]

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[HEADING=2]? What this suggests[/HEADING]

Putting the above together:
[ul]
[li]Efficiency affects your average TT (Trade Terminal) return — roughly how much value (in TT’d loot) you get relative to your cost. Because the dev note says Efficiency contributes at most ~7% of total loot value calculations.[/li][li]However, the composition of loot (e.g., ratio of rare items vs shrapnel, etc.) is affected by other factors — such as how optimally you kill the creature (matching gear/skills) and the DPP/efficiency of your kill cycle. The dev notes say Optimal Loot affects loot composition, not loot value.[/li][li]So yes: Efficiency does not appear to directly govern loot composition (i.e., what items you get) in the official wording. It rather tweaks the value side (how much you get back) by a small margin.[/li][li]Meanwhile, loot composition being improved (i.e., better items vs shrapnel) is more about matching gear/skills, minimising wasted cost (healing, over-damage, etc) and possibly your DPP. For example: “Loot value calculations and the composition of items in loot will be affected by properly matching avatar skills and gear … rewarding efficient kills with more interesting loot.”[/li][/ul]

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[HEADING=2]:warning: Why confusion exists[/HEADING]
Because in the community discussions:
[ul]
[li]Many players believe higher Efficiency does give better loot composition (more rarities, less shrapnel). Some quote statements like “Efficiency determines loot comp” or “Higher Efficiency = better loot drops”.[/li][li]But the dev notes seem to contradict that (or at least qualify it): Efficiency is “no more than 7% of total loot value” and “Optimal Loot only affects composition, not value.”[/li][li]The community blog/spoiler says: “DPP affects loot composition … Efficiency directly affects average TT return by 0-7%.”[/li][li]Some forum posts attribute to MA (the devs) the statement that Efficiency “does not directly affect loot composition.” For example: > “Efficiency has a direct effect on the overall TT return, it does not directly affect loot composition.”[/li][/ul]

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[HEADING=2]? Conclusion[/HEADING]
Efficiency only affects TT return (value) and not loot composition (items). Based on official dev notes, that is the more accurate interpretation: Efficiency tweaks the value side a little (up to ~7% or so), but factors like gear/skill matching, minimal waste, DPP, optimal kill time, etc., are what influence what you get in terms of item types (composition).

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[HEADING=2]? What this means in practice[/HEADING]

[ul]
[li]If you focus purely on Efficiency (say choosing a weapon because it has “high Efficiency”), you might slightly improve your returns, but you won’t magically get more rare items unless you also optimise other factors (skill/gear/match).[/li][li]To improve loot composition(i.e., more rares, fewer scraps), you’ll want to:[/li][LIST]
[li]Get your avatar skills (hit ability, damage professions) matched to the weapon.[/li][li]Avoid over-amping (using amplifiers too large relative to weapon) or wasting cost via healing/armor decay.[/li][li]Use a weapon/set-up with high DPP and good matching, so you kill efficiently, with minimal wasted cost.[/li][/ul]
[li]Since Efficiency only contributes up to ~7% of loot value, it’s a smaller lever compared to many others. So don’t over-focus on it at the expense of DPP, gear match, or cost control.[/li][/LIST]

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2

But then, why high-eff weapons are being sold by their owners if they give up to 107% of loot ?

I don’t believe in:
[ul]
[li]One dev comment: > “Efficiency… directly affects average TT return by 0-7%” and “DPP (damage per PEC) affects loot composition.”[/li][/ul]

4 Likes
3

if only there was a thread explaining exactly how much looter and efficiency affects your loot, somewhere, on this forum, posted by a very talented and great hunter, with data to back it up…

but as another big hunter usually says:

“noone reads in this f*cking game”

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-loot-returns-work-as-function-of-looter-level-and-efficiency-based-on-actual-data-as-of-march-3rd-2022.286664

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4

DPS is getting rare loot as rare loot comes in waves
DPP only affects composition as your cost to kill is cheaper and you get slightly more MU compared to shrapnel
EFF is king tho

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I don’t think it works like that, it’s more like with 0 efficiency you have possibilty to get 93% and 100% efficiency gives you
the possibilty to get 100% “of what is possible to get”. :wink:

6

read again, no one says you’d get 107% returns…

and they have high prices because they save you tons of PED in the long run compared to lower efficiency weapons, simple as that

7

i would say balance is king. not dpp, not efficiency, but balance. focusing on only one of the two is not ideal at all.

for instance, you can slap a [Longreach 4] and two [Bullseye 8] on a Chon S1X1 for a minimal increase in efficiency, but doing so completely wrecks your DPP and would make for very poor hunts.

balance is king

1 Like
8

Zho’s post shows % returns according to efficiency and looter levels. It does not talk about DPP or the differences between efficiency and DPP.

My post tries to explain the differences between the “efficiency” parameter and the “DPP” parameter. I do not talk about looter levels.

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Devs have given an exhaustive information on what affects what years ago, no amount of reiteration will prevent people from skipping or perverting it and making their own theories.

Because there is no 100%+ tt return in loot 2.0 no matter what you use. In 1.0 a superior dpp gear could put you from say 95% tt return to 102%. After the return was changed from being based on damage to being based on cost on one hands, and shifting a part of pool towards people with higher Looters, the base average tt return went down. Superior efficiency maybe can get you to 97-98% and that’s it, then you need markup, but it’s a tedious work that the majority of those playing for “fun” is not willing to do. And without that effort the only difference between 98% and 90% is the length of the road to ruin.

(all numbers are pulled out of the ass for illustrative purposes)

Luckily, that part is easiest to check in this whole thing. Grab a 20% eff weapon and a 80% eff weapon, cycle 100k with each and compare the results. Variations of that have been done before, but of course if you don’t believe MA you shouldn’t believe that as well and have to do it yourself.

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seeing how the first freaking comment in this thread is “why high-eff weapons are being sold by their owners if they give up to 107% of loot” im afraid you are right

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these ai generated texts btw, is getting real old on the forum, cut that crap out.

sorry, i meant:

these ai generated texts :keyboard: btw, is getting ??‍:male_sign: real old ? on the forum, cut ? that crap ? out. ??

2 Likes
12

7% based on efficiency and 7% based on looter profession is HUGE,
in a 2M cycle that ranges from 300.000 ped loss vs 20.000 loss
TT returns will always be lower then 100%, the house must always win.
if you average 5% mu, at 99% TT return you can profit, at 85% tt return you can’t profit.

2 Likes
13

It just makes for an easier read than a wall of text.

There are 5 emojis in my entire post by the way, hardly enough to draw attention away from the content.

What’s your problem?

14

Make sure you only shoot face north.

1 Like
15

Hmm read my post, I never said you would have 107% return.

Still, why do people sell them if they win ? :wink:

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Grab a [SET-P1 Civilian Sidearm], hunt 30 min with it : low loot, but various.
Add a [E-Amp 15], hunt 30 min with it : more loow, only Shrap.

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I’ll put it in simple terms to give u the “why”

have high efficiency weapon that cycles 1m ped a year, avg markup lets say 4% if hunting proper - total profit on 98% TT return would be around 19200 ped…
sell gun…
buy bigger high efficiency weapon that enables u to cycle more, lets say 5x more, so 5m ped a year(for same amount of time invested), then that 19200ped turns into 96000ped

or maybe no way to have bankroll for cyclin even on that 1m weapon, so sell and buy lower so u can sustain and build ava, instead of stopping and letting possible ROI die.

hopefully this helps

1 Like
18

thank you for a pretty good explanation :slight_smile:

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19

You can believe, just need to understand what the max 7% a % of. it is defiantly not the total and from all my testing lines up with increase if the % lost not the total.
Dreamer interpretation of MA statement 7%. I was getting 90% now I get (90+7) 97 or .07 x total loot. 90 ped spent now returns 97
All tested results = much closer to something like I was losing 10% I now get a 7% increase in the 10% loss .07 x total loss. (.07x10)=.7 resulting in 90.7 return on the 100ped spent.
(100 x 0.90) + ((100 - (100 x 0.90)) x 0.07) = 90.7
As base eff on all but a few weapons’ in game well over 50 and none are 100 we are getting even less as we only gain on the difference between the the 2 options. If one was 50 eff and another 100 you would gain 50% of the .07% increase. in example above 100eff would give you 90.7, 50eff would give you 90.35. .35 Ped gain on 100p cycle better than nothing but how much that is worth to you should depend allot on how much ped you cycle.

long story short the eff gain or loss is in the % lost not the total spent. If your cycle in the millions a month it can defiantly save you some ped. For the other 99% of the game, more investing in the markup loss or gain in the weapon itself for the time you own it.

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SET-P1: 0.2 pec cost; 3.46 dpp - higher than average loot composition/variety
SET-P1+E-Amp15: 6.8 pec cost so the loot per kill is bumped accordingly; Yes, there is a 50% drop in efficiency which should in theory result in 3.5% drop in tt return (assuming that the 0-7% is linear) but you won’t see it from 30 or 300 min hunt, because the volatility and the difference in returns in each run will be huge, 3.5% will drown in that.
As for shrapnel, that combo has 0.15 dpp - beyond any definition of “bad composition”.

No discrepancy with whatever devs said.