I was thinking… In auction most ores are really high %'s. A rough approximation about 150% in average. Some are 500%+ and some are a little lower than 150%.
With an average % on ore being about 150%, a miner would need 67% TT return to break even. A crafter would need 150% TT return to break even.
Does this sound “fair” to you?
(This is not a complaint since I don’t craft much, just an observation.)
Hello Sarah
You may have a look here to a close Related Topic and maybe find some Interessting Vievpoints regarding your Question.
“Fair” leaves a whide Floor for Interpretation. Really Fair is only Socialism (and this works just Theoretical but fail in Praxis as we all know).
Its as always the downprayed Supply / Demand Thing. How high the Difference can be shows the Example Wather. In Europe its almost worthless no one Think about using it really Wasting. In some Countrys People die in Wars for Wather.
Exept some Pro ÜBER miners most Miners get between 30 and 70% TT Value of the Used bombs. That can differ a lot regarding the Bombing Style of the Miner and his Luck and Skills and Place. Its a highly Gambeling Profession and expensive too. Resellers also Outbuy the Marked storing it and causing a “hand made” shortage of some Supplys to get thier 5 - xxx% Profit.
Its fair as long People willing to Buy. If no one buys Prices will fall. As long People buy Prices will constant or Raising. So is it fair to pay 150% of Ore Prices ? How mutch is a Colored Master Coat worth in TT and how mutch they got sold ? Is it fair ? How mutch cost well Craftet über Weapons ? Is it fair ? How mutch % are they Above TT ?
I can not awnser this Questions. Fair is, what most People think it is.
If i could make good Prognoses about whats fair and what not i would have a Penthouse in NY letting getting well Payed for this Ability 
[QUOTE=Fiona Simmons]
Hello Sarah
You may have a look here to a close Related Topic and maybe find some Interessting Vievpoints regarding your Question.
“Fair” leaves a whide Floor for Interpretation. Really Fair is only Socialism (and this works just Theoretical but fail in Praxis as we all know).
Its as always the downprayed Supply / Demand Thing. How high the Difference can be shows the Example Wather. In Europe its almost worthless no one Think about using it really Wasting. In some Countrys People die in Wars for Wather.
Exept some Pro ÜBER miners most Miners get between 30 and 70% TT Value of the Used bombs. That can differ a lot regarding the Bombing Style of the Miner and his Luck and Skills and Place. Its a highly Gambeling Profession and expensive too. Resellers also Outbuy the Marked storing it and causing a “hand made” shortage of some Supplys to get thier 5 - xxx% Profit.
Its fair as long People willing to Buy. If no one buys Prices will fall. As long People buy Prices will constant or Raising. So is it fair to pay 150% of Ore Prices ? How mutch is a Colored Master Coat worth in TT and how mutch they got sold ? Is it fair ? How mutch cost well Craftet über Weapons ? Is it fair ? How mutch % are they Above TT ?
I can not awnser this Questions. Fair is, what most People think it is.
If i could make good Prognoses about whats fair and what not i would have a Penthouse in NY letting getting well Payed for this Ability
[/QUOTE]
Without sounding rude Fiona…im pretty sure Sarah is aware of 99% of your thread content(sarahs been around a ‘while’ 
)
I think perhaps sarah was asking why theres a sudden high % jump in ore prices.
You could easilY make a profit selling majority of ores ~135% previously atm some of these more available ores have jumped in price…
unless i mistook this thread :dunce:
Thanks Kalashi for understanding my question. And Fiona yes, the thread wasn’t really about the “fair” question. More about what happened to ore prices.
As far as I know crafting got worse. I used to get about 100% TT return in my favourite crafting area a couple of VUs ago. Almost breaking even if I bought the ore at TT price. Now I get a lot less return, and ore prices are higher.
Just for fun I tried mining with 100 bombs. I know this is not enough for a positive statistic, but gives a pretty nice picture. 100 bombs, 9 depositits. Two of which were not concentrated enough to extract. So 7 deposits. Largest was “small” rest was poor. I tried both Amethera (inside the LG-areas) and my old favourite spots on Eudora. Got less than 10 ped return.
So, did MA change mining return to reflect the market prices for ore? To balance? Because I didn’t notice this before. I used to get atleast 60-70% return from mining. Usually more.
But question still stands, miners need roughly 67% return to break even, and crafters need 150%. What changed?
Ahhh i misunderstood your Question, sorry 
Im not long enough in PE to say anything about that. I can just Speculate
I Tried to Mine and didn’t got the 67% TT of my Costs back it was more like 30%. (I dont blame anyone but me for that)
Maybe MA think too mutch Crafters and Miners will kill the Economy and Adjusting the Ammount of them by making People Change to Hunting. ,)
Will interessting to see what others can say about it.
I keep thinking of the term Zopa, or Zone of Possible Agreement when it comes to ore these days
Essentially economic speak for the overlap between the lowest price a seller is willing to go and the highest price a buyer is willing to pay.
I suspect you’re just seeing people attempting to probe the highest price buyers are willing to pay for ore.
I guess so. There should be some kind of union between miners and crafters, so that no resellers are used. That was the prices would be pushed down. Problem is just that there is no easy way to tell of the person you are selling to is indeed a crafter or a reseller.
But if no resellers bumped prices both miners and crafters would have better conditions.
Maybe I might take action myself. Just going to figure out what kind of union can be made.
About ore prices
Prices for ore are high because people lazy. They not look to auction carefully and sometimes buy stuff with very intresting prices (high) i mean. And gossips spread out and miners ask high price too. And collector-resellers like me, must pay higher prices too. Later then resellers put ores to auction or sell to crafters, resellers must take higher price too to take their little profit. Its like round.
One time this collapse - crafters cant pay too high prices, because nobody buy theyr e stuff. Market goes to sleep and prices down. After some time market wake up with lower prices again:) and all beginning again. Circle of life:)
I hunt and mine, and when I’m done I usually take all my tailoring, ore and en-matter materials to PA to get rid of it.
Unfortunately, in PA, all I seem to come across are resellers..
Example..
I had 150 soft hide which I sold in PA for 115%. I TPd over to Ithaca and seen the same reseller there selling on my Soft Hide to a crafter for 125%..
Personally, I’d have been quite happy to sell my items to the crafter for 115%, as I’m sure the crafter would have been also.
The problem being I don’t really know any crafters that I could sell my looted/mined goods on to at sensible prices.
So if anyone out there would like (not a reseller!!) to buy goods at cheap prices straight from a hunter/miner, drop me a quick PM and I’ll make sure you get your goods cheap
I hate milling around PA for hours on end, just for some reseller to bargain me down to ridiculous prices 
I’m all for the union! Anarchy in Calypso! w00t w00t :tongue2:
I wouldn’t suggest Amethera for mining, Sarah. No offense though !
Well, you can usually break even on 100 bombs with good spots. It’s not really a matter of luck, just make sure your spots are not too common and alive.
If you can’t break even with your current spots, I think you need to find new ones.
I think there is
Ask your buyer what (s)he is going to craft with the stuff you are selling, and maybe a little scan will help… Most resellers don’t even take the time to get information on what they are reselling. Talented resellers do, though.
Agreed
Here’s a suggestion:
Stratics IRC network is the generally used IRC server for PE users (PE actually pay stratics for the channel #project-entropia
All hunters/miners/crafters download a copy of mIRC ( http://www.mirc.com ) and join the stratics server
/server irc.stratics.com
(Personally, from the UK i use stratics.afraidyet.net)
Then all hunters/miners/crafters join an agreed channel
We can then at any time alt-tab out of PE, check who is in channel, and offer/request items there
My suggestion is /join #PE-Trade-Union
I am a hunter, part time miner, and occasional crafter
I have registered this channel, and only hunters/miners/crafters that I know from within game or in this forum will be given voice. Therefore, only buy from or sell to those who have voice or ops
I have not set up any names for auto-voice as yet, simply join the channel and message me. If I know you are not a reseller, you will receive voice
My PC is permanently connected, and mIRC is always running, so I may not reply straight away, but will do so as soon as I return to my PC
This completely solves the problem of resellers
People I do not know from within the game can be nominated by those who have voice. If they are seconded by another voiced user, they will be added
About ore prices
All right. Information costs. He knows where sell hides, You dont.
Sell to resellers or not? Its question how much You prices Your time. If You like ,You can hunt mobs or crafters to sell them. And belive me, You try sell Your hides 125% too :)) if crafter agree:)
And by the way, my solution will also let you quickly get a list of known hunters/miners/crafter, you’ll soon remember the names of your favourites
The channel is created and ready
Remember, everything starts small, but sitting in an IRC channel doing nothing doesnt use up any of your PC processor time
It will get bigger in time
I will also advertise in-game to people on my FL who I know are hunters/miners
Seems like people are intereted in a union. Maybe some kind of community for miners and crafters so that everyone will know how is buying and who is selling.
How about this idea:
A community where you can sign up if you’re a miner or a crafter (NOT a reseller). Boards or lists where you can post what you are buying and at what %. Crafters also need to state what they are crafting, both to be able to sell it easier and to verify they are not reselling. Some checkups to make sure nobody is abusing the system for reselling purposes.
The union would be a place to buy and sell at the low prices you get without resellers, and to make the community know you exist and are willing to buy/sell.
Anyone?
You all beat me to the point, and yes, an IRC channel would solve some of the issues. Bots would be needed though to whom you can post what you are buying/selling so that searches and such would be available.
Sarah
I am a computer programmer myself
The bot programs will be written by myself, and will be secure
Please feel free to join us
This is something I totally agree with you on, and the option is right there - up and working as we type
Hi all, i know your not quite into resellers most of the time, but we’ve got a soc member (zeno) who’s pretty good at getting and selling big amounts of ore and em. His prices are not to high and are a bit less than auctions if i remember well. Check out his chart at:
http://www.infinitdesign.ca/lfl/chart.asp
Some of the miners who also don’t want to take time to sell their ore and em, might find the chart usefull… since it’s a chart for the prices he buys too. I’m saying this in this thread to help out a fellow soc member and also to vehiculate the information incase someone might be interested. No offence meant to people who don’t like reseller, it wasn’t the point. Hope it servers you well… you can contact zeno via our soc forum or via the support e-mail on our website. (wich is on the EF main page btw)
Greetz
[QUOTE=ElbryanWolf]
Hi all, i know your not quite into resellers most of the time, but we’ve got a soc member (zeno) who’s pretty good at getting and selling big amounts of ore and em. His prices are not to high and are a bit less than auctions if i remember well. Check out his chart at:
http://www.infinitdesign.ca/lfl/chart.asp
Some of the miners who also don’t want to take time to sell their ore and em, might find the chart usefull… since it’s a chart for the prices he buys too. I’m saying this in this thread to help out a fellow soc member and also to vehiculate the information incase someone might be interested. No offence meant to people who don’t like reseller, it wasn’t the point. Hope it servers you well… you can contact zeno via our soc forum or via the support e-mail on our website. (wich is on the EF main page btw)
Greetz
[/QUOTE]
No offence taken, but I am aiming at letting the miners sell -directly- to the crafters. No exceptions. No resellers allowed into the union.
I think those prices are crazilly high :eek: Does he really sell Iron for 160% ? Or are these just old prices?
[QUOTE=FireW0lf]
Sarah
I am a computer programmer myself
The bot programs will be written by myself, and will be secure
Please feel free to join us
This is something I totally agree with you on, and the option is right there - up and working as we type
[/QUOTE]
I am also a computer programmer, and will also look into the matter. Lot of features would need to be implemented.
For registered users (members of the union) one would be able to add sales records into a database so that everyone can search and look for certain ingots and materials. Also more advanced features would be needed.
If you don’t feel like you are able to program it I am more than happy to help. This is for the community.
(Is it obvious that I don’t really like resellers?)