Buff system broken

There are next to no buffs available to buy. Food buffs are overpriced. Nothing drops. Ai missions rarely give pills.

Will there ever be any efforts made to balance this or was it completely set and forget?

It is kind of annoying mindark spends so much time to create a system to move funds from paying customers to non paying. By not balancing the cycle is reduced as well. The only balancing done was stealing a blueprint from me I got through the AI mission and proceeding to give others who got it a higher compensation.

Will this ever be addressed or is it done with?

May I suggest increasing the drop rate of all blueprints at least tenfold if not more? Limit it with time if needed. Seeing we are forced to donating money maybe goal should be to make our buffs a bit cheaper in the process?

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Do Mayhem, get MTokens buy 10mg pills from vendor is a pretty decent option.

It is but it feels unnecessarily complicated to buy buffs now and prices keep rising making them less and less attractive. It gets frustrating. If mindark could just do the right thing and drop more food blueprints it would both create a more reasonable market as well as creating an incentive to fish.

So much went bleh just to please a few.

Issue with BPs is: they are hard to sell.
I have a bunch of pecs of different ones that aint worth auctioning. And finding a decent buyer P2P is tedious. So they are sitting there for “better times”. From MAs PoV, there are “enough” BPs in turnover. But in practice: they are sitting in storages in low quantities without a use.

Possible sollution could be an option of daily and weekly.
You can either do 1 each day for 7 days, or 1 each week (choose path type of quest each weekly reset).

For weekly:
2-3 types of fish in “bulk”. Too many or a single one would be impractical.
Single type of reward, like 30-50 pecs of one BP, would be much easier to sell/acquire.

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They could up the rewards yes. Make it 50 clicks instead of 5. Anything to make it move.

It isn’t “right” according to MindArk. They put zero effort into thinking about it and balancing, they got the redistribution of wealth implemented and called it a day.

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I’m not an economist but I don’t think flooding the market is a solution :joy: Have you tried paying more? :rofl: Tweaks need to be slow and analyzed carefully. Let’s not destroy a whole new section of gameplay

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Totally agree here with the OP: To replace the buff-system of MA-controlled pills to player-controlled food-buffs was a brilliant idea, with an execution that was coming down on our universe like a sledgehammer, and a balancing that reminds me of putting a yellow-glowing hot iron ball in a glass of cold water back in school some 50 years ago. The problems with that rapid change were predictable, and unavoidable. The “balancing” acts we saw so far in the various patches after abandoning pills were: (1) buffed foods require now raw fish, (2) we got all free flats so that more people are able to cook, and (3) land plots were suddenly given away for plot tokens to balance the lack of transgen fruits.

Well, well, well … none of these balancing acts showed the desired effect: (1) made it more difficult to cook and, thus, provide buffed food because raw fish is still not tradeable on auction; professional cooks have either to secure a raw fish supply via P2P trades or be professional fishers as well. This is not an option in a game in which truly mastering one profession can easily take a decade. (2) did do nothing to speak off as cooking is a profession that requires some heavy PEDs to get started with. Free flats alone won’t do the trick, neither would free flats + free cooking stations. The problem is the PED investment to arrive at a profession level that actually allows one to contribute meaningfully to the buff system. (3) Plots, plots, and more of them plots! Not unlike point (2), to arrive at a meaningful contribution to the economy, it takes PEDs, PEDs, and more of them PEDs. I saw the areas with plots, and see not much change on the side of housing emerging. So, plots remain and are used as one of the last flexible passive PED storage options, to perhaps trade down the line a plot deed with a decent weapon, or trade a deed as security for lending something actually useful. Thus, transgen fruits remain as elusive and expensive as before (and you can insert your jokes here in regards to that LOL).

What would have made, and could bring, a palpable change imho are things like:

(A) Identify the bottlenecks, and balance the drop rate of cooking BPs. Yes, fishing AI NPCs give regularly BPs, but on a 1:2 ratio last time I checked. Hand in 10 fish for getting 5 PEC worth of BP. Not too bad if you do that for a week, but after 3 months you are down 5 PED + MU for the spools (if you don’t double your time invested with baitfishing). Worse still, the 5 PED of BPs you end up with are distributed over many recipes, and you won’t be able to sell any as the value is too small per BP for the AH. What about iron-mission type missions that give you some UL BP, or some decently valued L BP, at the end, perhaps repeatable on a weekly basis? What about some rare BP find while fishing? What about balancing the drop rate and type of BPs during cooking? I had a few weeks ago a run with like 3k attempts on FGP and got not a single BP! How is that even possible?

(B) Make raw fish tradeable, so that all cooks, noobs and uebers, have access to those rare varieties that allows one to cook actually valuable buffed food that can be sold. Yes, there are pro and cons to that issue, but give it a try, MA, please! From an economy 101 perspective, it should work!

(C) Make fishing available on all planets, or at least buffed food not lootable in PvP so that there is a demand that must and without risks can be satisfied on other planets. This would stimulate the market at least marginally!

(D) Balance the droprates of pills for those AI NPC missions, and make pills again available in Strongboxes. Concerning the latter, opening Boxes became now as boring as watching grass grow. There is nothing to expect anymore, no excitement, no hope for something other than universal ammo. Why bothering with Boxes at all anymore? The transition could have been done more gracefully: Lower the droprate of pills in Strongboxes gradually, over a certain period of time. That would have been and easy thing to do, and showed respect to the players on all planets.

(E) ??? (feel free to add your ideas here)

Anyway, just a bit of a rage addition to the OP. I feel your frustration, WhiningSkeptic! Unfortunately, the damage is done, and whatever might be done to rectify things now is likely too little too late. Personally, I am a hunter, but after the fishing release, I stopped almost entirely. I bought myself one of these Bunny Robots to compensate for the loss of autoloot pills (it will take a few more weeks to get the Bunny up to level 30 unlock though), and focus on becoming a professional fisher to be then able to become a professional cook to be then able to cook the buffed food I need to return to hunting. imagine that!!! A detour that will take several years to complete so that I finally, eventually, perhaps, possibly can return to professional hunting. No choice really, as I am not going to pay the gigantic MU on buffed food at the moment, well, that is if you are lucky enough to find your buffed treat at all. No thank you … and rage-comment out :smiley:

:star: :star: :star: :star: :star: The Admiral :star: :star: :star: :star: :star:

I am already paying more because of endless leechers. Not only the fact they messed up buffs going full Robin hood but all the time wasted on it that could have been used to improve the game

You keep saying leechers and free to play but you seem to forget about the many mid players this system has benefited. I know many who have deposited thousands (self included) that this system has benefited. The game has catered to macro noobs for far too long and this has resulted in sluggish markets with a demolished player base. The base has to be built from buttom up and middle out. From a business standpoint it’s in the games future benefit to give new players a free sample and taste with hopes they eventually decide to convert to depositing players who want to invest and build out their avatars. In order to get these players there has to be a beneficial and desirable pipeline for them to go through to convert them. These things take time and patience but if you take a step back from your personal game play and desires while removing personal bias you will see the direction and intentions they are building towards. For that I offer my thanks. It’s not perfect but a good direction. Let’s build the base, increase economic contributions, increase depo’ing players, and boost game economy. This in the end will benefit everyone.

3 Likes

They definitely need to drop at least 10-20x more preserved 10 hour combat buff bps than they are doing now and test out how that ends up working and probably tweak again in a month by 10-20x-ing that number. I have seen firsthand doing 10-30 daily missions in a day sometimes don’t even get a single drop of any kind of 10 hr combat buff bps and max of 3 drops on best day. Since fishing came out I think I’ve made a total of 6 preserved combat filets, and 15x -10hr reloads, CC, crit dmg buffs. That wouldn’t be enough to sustain myself using buffs let alone selling.

Another big problem is the droprate of rare fish. For example 1 type can have an expensive lure that only one person has a monopoly on (this is the case with many lures) and then the fish is 1 catch per 5 hours. So burn a 200-2000p lure to catch a single fish and have it burn up whole lure practically. MA needs to jack up droprates on those fish + start dropping clicks of rare lures in the AI so 1 guy doesn’t have a monopoly just because he crafted on 1st day it came out and got the single drop of a ton of clicks.

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Bring Pills Back - Entropia Universe Economy / General Economy Discussion - Entropia Universe Forum

And no i will not buy from these so called food suppliers who are trying to make a quick buck. And the pills that are available are only still here because mindark ask for $ to obtain them.

Because it could benefit you while it cost me less than before since I have lost markup that leechers now get. Simple solution. Increase droprate to compensate for that.

For instance today the change cost me a couple hundred ped. I had no pill in boxes, didn’t bother with AI because fuck 3.6% and I had to overpay. Just increase droprate. Why should I pay for someone else who doesn’t even put effort in?

I could not agree more with what you said! And yes, I do share your frustration!

It is not only that these loaded early birds benefitted from bulk-crafting to catch those swirls for “first to discover” an only-one-in-game BP, but also took advantage of a (deliberately?) rigged fishing mechanics right after release: Those very same loaded birds could buy highest-end gear with insane MU right off the market, and for a reason I cannot get my head around, MA “missed” to enable the standard mechanics of penalties for using above-profession gear. We all started off with zero profession level, yet could use (if you had the PEDs) that Ueber fishing gear without punishment. Worse still, that high-level gear gave a multiplier to skill gains and, more importantly, the incremental Codex gains. That allowed to level up the fishing-related professions super-fast. After a few weeks, the “patch” came, that enabled the normal mechanics. Nobody can tell me that this was “by accident”.

Yes, I am a bit frustrated and angry about this, because playing by the rules gets you apparently nowhere, or very slowly somewhere not really exciting. Don’t get me wrong, I do love the fishing/cooking addition to our universe. In fact, I think the buff system rework at its core is the most brilliant change in the past decade. But why not giving a fair chance to everybody by doing things right? I think if the fishing/cooking system would have been released properly, the lack of buffs and their insane prices could have been avoided. Let’s face it, because it was “rigged” (or let’s say more carefully, released in a rush without proper testing), those who had the PEDs to throw on insane MU gear benefitted to an extent that we “normal” players cannot catch up with. And it is exactly that gap that allows those very same loaded early birds to keep a lid on things in regards to buffed food. The early story of the availability of cooking stations is evidence of that. The market was behaving quite strangely there.

Finally, let me venture a little conspiracy theory here: That raw fish is not tradeable does not make any sense whatsoever, as it is a core resource just like any other used in crafting. But why? Perhaps, just a maybe with cherry on top, MA keeps the raw fish out of a fair and free demand-supply economy to shield those very few loaded early birds that got those only-one-in-game BPs for cooking, and the high fish looter profession level (due to that rigged mechanics) to actually catch those rare fish for the high-end buffs. Just a thought, born out of frustration and anger. And yes, for all those who look at this being the frustration of a noob or F2P player, I do deposit a sizeable amount monthly, and I do play on/off since 2005. My (and so many other’s) mistake seems to be to play fair, follow the rules, and have a disdain for cheating and taking advantage of others. Shame on us, it seems! Sorry for the rant, James_Jimbo_Linehan, I just needed to get this off my chest, because I did feel the frustration also in what you wrote!

There are definitely many issues I see with the buff system. A lot of it also ties in to fishing, so I’ll start there.

Fishing is arguably one of the slowest professions. While catching fish doesn’t take long to do, the spool consumption and decay are low. Starting off, your returns are .01 for the fish (if you even get a fish), and .01-.02 in fish scraps usually. This is ok as a low cost and slow profession starting off. However, there are other issues with this profession that should be discussed.

Fishing has the fish looter profession tied to it. I assume it works like animal looter, mutant looter, and robot looter. One thing that stands out is you don’t get skill in the fish looter profession like gutting or filleting by simply catching fish. This is strictly tied to every other codex reward and every other fishing meta reward. That is a problem, as this profession is slow to progress as is. With hunting, you can target the looter profession you want to farm, while also hunting higher maturities to boost codex progression speed. There are many different mobs to hunt, allowing you to farm the beginning levels of the codex for each mob. With fishing, you can only hope to catch the fish you’re trying to reach the next codex for. You can pick the biome and bait, but maturity and fish type is still random, even if you use the higher quality, deeper depth, and more costly bait.

Let’s now turn to the equipment required to even participate in this profession at the entry level. You can get the free Baitfishing Rod, but baitfish are used in some crafting recipes or mixed together with universal ammo for spool cells, aka fishing ammo. So one of the entry level setups everybody has access to is the Herman Angler A-01 (L) unlimited blueprint, Sollomate Linelock B-01 (L) unlimited blueprint, Weak SL-40x Fishing Line (L) unlimited blueprint, Adu Darcia Ultralight Fishing Blank C-01 (L) unlimited blueprint, and Sweat Ball Bait (L) unlimited blueprint. This requires five different crafted pieces to be put together just to engage with fishing, along with the spool cells required as ammo.

Let’s look at the entry for other professions compared to fishing. With terrestrial mining, you can buy the entry finder, resource extractor, and refiner straight from the trade terminal. Ammo can also be directly bought or you can just use universal ammo if you have it. With hunting, you can buy a starter pack from the store, or buy entry level weapons and armor from the trade terminal. Ammo can also be bought from the trade terminal or it uses up universal ammo. With space mining, it seems to be a more specialized and “premium” profession to get in to. You need a space ship, thruster, and oil to get started with the profession. Crafting the space ship and thruster isn’t too complicated, and there are enough in the auction house or shops available so it isn’t much of an issue. This is partly due to how long these last. You aren’t burning through space ships that fast, unless you also enjoy space hunting (which I don’t think is very popular in a quad-wing). Even with it being a more costly profession, you can still buy entry mining lasers from the terminal to start it up with little hindrance. Ammo can be bought from the trade terminal or you can use the universal ammo you have. Not only does fishing require five different components to start, the ammo it uses requires either spending time baitfishing, buying the baitfish for a premium, or crafting the spool cells using transgen fruit. Crafting using the transgen fruit requires buying the fruit at some high markup, or growing the fruit yourself, requiring an expensive upfront cost on the land, house, gardening plot, and ingredients themselves. That is a discussion by itself.

Now lets look at what you have to craft to complete a basic angling fishing setup. Standard rods, metal mountings, simple 2 conductors, simple 1 plastic ruds, long moonleaf boards, and nanocubes. This is all just to craft the rod, tying in four different professions (hunting, mining, resource gathering, and crafting). This requires both enmatter and ore mining, hunting animals and robots, and gathering from huge trees. In total, there are six different crafting recipes you need to run before you can craft this rod, along with everything else. That, or you can buy the items from other players, but how many middle men do you have to go through to get just the rod? I don’t even want to go through the materials required to craft the attachments and bait. While some items do cross-over in the crafting blueprints, there are a few different items that need to be crafted or gathered.

The herman angler a-01 rod usually sits at a 150% markup (6 PED total) on the auction house, so you can let the crafters be crafters, but think about the markup you’re paying to finish just a basic setup. Not only that, the ammo is not readily available, or you’re spending roughly 70%+ markup for just the spool cells alone (as 1k baitfish are about 7PED at the time of this post). It seems odd to me that one of the slowest professions to progress and one that is considered a premium profession is heavily tied to one of the few “free to play” mechanics. It would be understandable if the barrier to entry weren’t so high.

Aside from the ridiculous amount of crafting needed to get any setup started, every other angler blueprint is largely supplied from daily quests that reward a random blueprint with a single click. Players aren’t going to do the daily for a month in the hopes that they get a meaningful stack of a single blueprint to throw on the auction house. This bottleneck is also why the prices are so high. Not only that, every fish has a base value of .01, leaving almost all of the raw returns in fish scrap. This forces player markup to drive returns, which will be high because of the entry costs and blueprint bottleneck. I saw that people don’t like how a lot of the fishing is done by free to play or low deposit players, but if you actually think about what it costs to do any sort of crafting or cooking, you should understand why.

Now let’s finally look at cooking. The only unlimited gastronomy blueprint available from the terminal is the Cod Fillet Recipe. This requires cod fish oil, food container 1, nutri paste, vita boost, and fish sauce. There is so much involved, I don’t want to even start to break this down. Just know that you don’t even have access to all of the blueprints from the terminal that is required to craft the entry gastronomy blueprint. All of the blueprints required for it are unlimited, with the exception of the food container blueprint. This is currently the huge bottleneck, as no unlimited version of it (to my knowledge) has been found yet, and the limited blueprint is a chance drop when crafting other provisioning items. Not only that, cooking the vita boost requires preservo gel, a level 8 nutritionist recipe that starts it’s SIB at 17.6 and requires transgen fruit.All of this for a 1 hour, 30% increased health regeneration buff. I find it extremely odd to require such a high level in another cooking profession along with highly gated items to just craft the basic recipe bought at the terminal.

One good thing I can see from this complex jumbo of requirements is that it gives players many options to specialize in something. Don’t want to collect or buy materials to do 6 different crafting recipes for the rod? Focus on metal mountings. Maybe you enjoy hunting, so you can focus on the conductors, plastic ruds, or triphased wires for the fishing line. You get the idea.

This quickly becomes an issue if you want to be self-sufficient in fishing, and even more so if you want to use that fish in cooking. Fishing should naturally feed in to the cooking profession, and it does, but not at the level I am comfortable with. If I have to scrounge for so many materials, tap in to many different professions, or opt to buy the crafted rod and attachments at a high markup just to gather fish, that creates a huge barrier to entry. Cooking the food buffs with fish that is caught seems out of reach for most players because of how much complexity is added on top of what is required for the fishing profession. It just seems that gathering the fish should be most of the work required to cook the food, not gathering more ore, enmatter, and wood, and being bottlenecked by blueprint drops, on top of having to gamble on six or more crafting recipes.

Dislike and complaints aside, here are some suggestions that I think would improve these professions. Change the blueprints for, or add a basic fishing setup that can be bought from the terminal. Add gutting and filleting (when unlocked) to the action of catching fish. Add fishing skill rewards to the daily fish turn in quests. Remove the cooking rewards from the fishing codex. Implement a daily crafting quest that rewards cooking skills (craft x provisioning recipes, get x PEC in provisioning skill). The ability to select which limited blueprint you get when turning in the daily fishing quest. Add more clicks to these limited blueprint rewards. Reduce the level of the preservo gel blueprint. Remove the requirement of a food container when crafting the gastronomy food. Instead, put a base TT value to package the food, or require the container in order to list it on the AH or to be put in a shop or shopkeeper (maybe refine the food item with the correct container).

I normally don’t post, but after spending an insane amount on markup to try the Omegaton Abyss D-200 (L) and it’s setup, only to catch the same fish I was catching with the D-100 (L) setup (and yes, I did use deeper and higher quality bait), I hope my concerns can at least push towards some improvements (or speed them up). I won’t even bother with cooking food buffs unless the fishing profession itself is improved, and hopefully the insane bottlenecks removed.

2 Likes

I agree things need tweaking. But I disagree on the effort part. It takes money, time, and effort to produce the buffs. I’m not a big time cooker by any means but I do see what all it takes.

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Walk Hard? Lol. Love that movie.

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So you people complain that there’s no markup but then when there’s markup you want MA to step in and remove the markup.

Ok.

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Who here was complaining that there wasn’t any markup? Have you seen the markup on some of the fishing and cooking blueprints, or attachments? What markup do you think these items should have?

*Complain there is no markup in the game prior to changes, then MA adds a system that has markup, and you want to remove that markup.

There’s the only clarification I’m giving.

Yeah, who here, in this thread, is complaining about there being no markup in the game prior to changes? Have you seen the markup on some of the fishing and cooking blueprints, or attachments? What markup do you think these items should have? There is a difference between removing markup and having it go down to be somewhat acceptable to both producers and buyers.