Many people suggest us to use daily token weapons instead of armatrix because of the high mu%. By comparing two guns with almost the same dmg/sec, e.g. a CalyTrek CR Spirit Mk. 3 (L) with an Armatrix BC-40 (L) (with 114% mu) in Entropia wiki/Weapon Compare V2, we find that the latter has better dmg/pec and efficiency.
I understand that CalyTrek CR Spirit Mk. 3 (L) is maxed at lvl 40 and Armatrix BC-40 (L) at lvl 45, so someone can take advantage of the higher dmg/sec. But I think in the long run it doesn’t worth…
The 114% markup on armatrix is 1% of your total turnover lost to markup, to make up for that difference it would have to be 14% higher efficiency than the calytrek at 100% markup
In other words, the markup on the Armatrix gun outweighs the little efficiency boost (of about 5% I think) you get from it. It’s more eco to use the token gun.
The secret to both of them is NOT using them for SIB. I noticed both armatrix and the CDF daily guns had really bad crit hit and other stats right up until you are maxed on skills. I recommend using the next level down until well into the maxed area and well past the skill bonus. Then it makes sense to use the attachments. It also makes sense to me to use the extender on the CDF guns. As for the MU on ArMatrix I recommend finding a reasonable seller with a steady supply instead of the Auction House and there are several.
It depends on how you farm the tokens. If you take every mission and cycle PED on missions where you wouldn’t normally cycle PED, then token guns can get very expensive. Each token costs you about 2-5ped to get once you account for Cycle losses, giving the 0.01pec tokens a very high markup.
Its best to incorporate your token farming with your hunts. only do the mission if you wanted to farm that creature anyway, and are still within your cycling budget. Double up on same creature dailys where you can, for example, I only do the Argonaut daily cave when I also get a Hunting 2 mission for Argonauts. Then make sure you check the mission terminal every 16 hours for bonus missions.
Doing tokens this way essentially makes the tokens free, and ending up with a weapon at the end of it which only really costs you universal ammo to cycle is a huge bonus.
D/pec isn’t THAT important. Not important enough to pay 114% Markup on. Armatrix are good if you don’t have another option at the DPS you want, that’s about it. If you got the tokens use them on the gun.
Armatrix bc-40 (L): Ammo cost 13.81 pec + decay cost 1.120 pec x 1.1412 = 15.088 pec. So, dmg/pec = 44.48/15.088=2.948
Calytrek-cr-spirit-mk-3-cdf (L): Ammo cost 16.73 pec + weapon decay 0.003 pec = 16.733 pec. So, dmg/pec = 48.65/16.733= 2.907
As I said the mu is included in the calculation. If we buy an Armatrix bc-40 with 114% mu, it has lower cost than calytrec. If the mu of Armatrix bc-40 was 132.9%, it would have the same cost with calytrec…
" As I said the mu is included in the calculation. If we buy an Armatrix bc-40 with 114% mu, it has lower cost than calytrec. If the mu of Armatrix bc-40 was 132.9%, it would have the same cost with calytrec… "
Lower cost of what? Producing damage?
Its not the damage that determines loot returned, its tt input, eff% on gun and looter level.
Markup paid is lost.
With dante, the cdf is 63,4% and the AR has 67,2. That small diff is stupid to pay that kind of markup for…
Those numbers don’t really matter. With the armatrix you are paying an extra 12 ped in markup that is not going to get compensated in loot. You will not get an extra 12ped in loot from the efficiency boost. A higher d/pec will result in cheaper kills but also less loot return. This is 2.0.
You asked our advice, We all basically told you the same thing, but we are still being ignored.
I’m not anti-Armatrix, these guns have their place in the economy. but that place isn’t eco hunting. They are stepping stones you use to max out a better weapon, or a low investment option for the occasional hunter. Their 65ish base efficiency just gives alot of players tunnel vision. Remember all those ISIS LBC weapons that you loot and put up for auction at TT+1? Use them instead. Then if you have tokens, trade them for a gun. Then after exhausting other options, use Armatrix.
While I agree on most of what you said I have to stop you right here because people will read it and take it as fact.
Damage per pec is VERY important. It will determine how many mobs you are killing against someone with a differing dpp for the same amount of ped. There are many situations in which one would want to optimize their dpp and efficiency for better loot composition and more looting instances (more mu loot). A person that can kill 1000 mobs compared to a person that can kill 900 for the same amount of ped is automatically at an advantage and there is no way to downplay that.
Another point…
IMHO it is a flawed mentality to only look at what you have to lose in markup and not what you have to gain in markup. That is pretty much what im reading across the board here and it is very one dimensional. There are mobs that drop low TT and very, very high MU items. So if you factor in time, because we all have 24 hours in a day, it is possible that someone paying markup for faster access to weapons is producing more than someone prioritizing CDF variants and waiting for the tokens necessary to exchange for a weapon. So for people here to say that the MU is flat out lost, that is something that is determined by the decisions one makes after such a purchase.
Not to mention the experience and knowledge of which mobs drop what and at what frequency, gained from actually being able to go out and hunt more mobs for an extended period of time. Because you caaaan check the wiki, but at best would only give you a rough idea until you try and know for yourself and decide if it is worth it to you.
If we are referring only to TT, then you would be 100% right. But there is markup involved.
My thoughts on the matter.
As for the OP, given his responses I don’t think he had any intention of changing his opinion when he made this thread.
You have to read the second half on that statement, and take my post in context of this post.
D/pec isn’t THAT important. Not important enough to pay 114% Markup on.
I didn’t say D/pec isn’t important at all, Just not important enough in this case. OP has a comparison of two guns and is trying to justify a 14% increase in mark-up for a ridiculously small gain in D/pec and efficiency. I’m trying to talk them out of this mindset.
You don’t need much more explanation than the fact that the 14% you pay in markup is not in anyway calculated in the TT value of your returns in both loot and skills. IF you happen to have the tokens to buy a CDF rifle for the level you want to hunt at, it is better to use that if you have no other desired use for the tokens.
Yeah…this is why I find myself dumbfounded every time I saw one of those RDI amps listed for 80 PED on the auction. They may have 98.5 eff, but you’re paying 80 PED for a 1 PED TT item because…reasons?
Don’t mean to go off-topic, but I would agree that paying out the ass for extra efficiency is silly unless you have extensive logs to show it’s worth it…which I imagine no one does.
It is quoted exactly how you wrote it. This is a blanket statement and can be misleading. He is not the only one that will be reading this remember. In the process of trying to convince someone that doesn’t want to be convinced, you are making misleading statements and downplaying the potential one can have by supporting the weapons market over prioritizing daily rewards which can’t even be produced in a large enough scale to make meaningful progress over a reasonable amount of time.
Give people simple, good, and clear information and let them do what they want with it. It’s not your duty to change his mindset, or anyone’s for that matter.
Ok lets do some maths.
Two side by side scenarios costing 1000 PED on a hunt. rounded to the nearest shot.
No amps/extenders/enhancers for simplification
Not counting looter professions.
BC-40
915.05ped ammo + 74.21 decay + 10.39 MU losses = 999.65 total cost
TT decay = 989.26 x average return rate of 94.536% = 935.21 TT return
Deficit = 64.44
Calytrek
999.78ped ammo + 0.18 decay + zero markup losses = 999.96 total cost
TT decay = 999.96 x average return rate of 94.137% = 941.34 TT return
Deficit =58.63
Edited to change my baseline from ammo burn to overall PED cost
If somebody takes my statement and misuses it then I cant do anything about that. I’m not disclaiming everything that I write, and I’m not claiming ultimate authority on my words.
This isn’t a generic markup vs d/pec discussion. This is a direct comparison between two guns, This is exactly what the OP asked. My advice is for this discussion.
What do you mean it is not my duty to change his mindset? He asked for opinions. If my opinion disagrees with his then that’s exactly what I will try to do. I never approached him, he asked us on a public forum.
Please stop trying to fight with me. I don’t wish to have these arguments on this forum . Thank you.
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