7.4 Nerfed My Radar

Entropia Universe Discussion General Discussion
1

OK so im always the guy to say ‘roll with the punches’ every VU, and i laugh at people bitching about the updates, but this is freakin dumb.

I mine quite a bit, so I need to know when i am going anywhere there is mobs. Why has my radar distance/view distance been reduced to half? mobs are constantly appearing/disappearing off my radar… this totally sucks. if its close enough to be on my radar, i want to see it. plain and simple. i dont care whether its a bery young or a longu provider, if its in radar range, it should appear on my radar. i dont want to run into a crowd of any kind of mob while i am mining.

Whats this crap about ‘reducing cpu load’ with the radar change, when we have stupid dancing trees all around? take the load off the cpu, and put it on the video card? right…

all i ask is for the radar to work. if a mob is there, i want to see it on my radar. that seems pretty freakin simple. how much cpu does it take to put a stupid red dot on my freakin radar?!

Everything else in 7.4 is fine, except for the radar issue. i just want my radar to work like it should, and like it did. yeah ive bitched about quitting, but i will probably just get used to it and continue to hate it. but i am really not happy about this development, because there is no point to it, and it just makes things a lot more difficult. why reduce the freakin radar range?!

2

If you’re a miner ,radar limitations is the least of your problems :mad: Even the exagerated mob spawn than makes a miner use 3 times more ammo is just an annoyence , a big one but still an annoyance.
The bad part is that skills are so hard to gain at mining right now from a medium lvl that there’s absolutely no point in looking at your skills anymore.Crafting is also messed up , no one in their right mind would start crafting now as the skill gains is just ridiculously low and only a few old time crafters will still wanna craft from time to time …so guess what ? Ore /enmatter price is gonna go down also , a lot , it’s pointless to go mining or start crafting right now :(:frowning:
This is the first VU, in 26 months that I’ve been playing PE, that really scares me!!! If MA don’t rollback to the old skill gain sistem , miners and crafters may as well become hunters or just give up on PE ?? :confused:

3

I agree with the radar thing…

Red dots are nothing! MA wants us to run into a mob of drone while we are lookin to blast a couple chirpy!

Infact - I see them spawn now! Right in front of my eyes! I stand in one spot and i can see them appear - some actually vanish!

Now, when hunting - I hit a mob once and gain a rank - whats up with that? And now we cant FAP skill in the ring??? WTF IS MA DOING?

I am seriously contemplating not depositing today :eek:

4

god… i havent even gotten a chance to play PE yet and im already growing adverse to the new VU…:scared:

5

[QUOTE=Zasz]
god… i havent even gotten a chance to play PE yet and im already growing adverse to the new VU…:scared:
[/QUOTE]

Shame on you :whip: Why on earth would you think that just b/c some ppl dislike something that you will too before you have even tested it for yourself? :silly2:

Onto discussion-
Yes, I also do not care for the radar, although I hunt mostly melee now so it isn’t a huge issue. And the large spawns are quite nice, but perhaps I would have preffered a more middle-of-the-road approach… or a better server so PE could handle more mobs :girl:

6

its something of a JOKE, svet…

but, for someone whose only experienced two VUs, MA seems to me to have gotten quite the negative feedback (at least, on these forums) from this one… and unlike the one before, for which it was mostly bitching and griping, this one seems to have a few very legitimate reasons…

7

My Support case.

Hey Guys,
After spending a few hours hunting last night (GMT+12), I noticed that there seems to be some issues with the radar range. I know it has been reduced on certain creatures, but what I battled with was that I could see a Cornundacauda young at about 110 metres, and as I walk towards it, 3 more suddenly appear at about 70 metres. I walk backwards, these 3 vanish, but I can still see the one at 110 metres. This kept on happening, and resulted in me being killed quite a few times. This is very frustrating. Also, it seems as if lag has gotten MUCH worse with the new VU. Before, I didn’t really notice it too much (except of course at LG and at the Robot attack at Camp Phoenix on the weekend), but in general I don’t really notice it. With the roll-out of the new VU, I get a ton of lag all the time. Eg. Shoot at a creature. Miss. Shoot again. Miss again. Run closer, and suddenly the creature reappears about 30 metres away, and I have wasted a whole bunch of ammo.

Another point about the radar range, is what is the point of having long range guns that can reach the border of the radar if we can’t see anything at that range. I use a Fireforge 4400 BGH, and that only has a range of 110 metres, and even I have noticed a problem.

These problems I could probably deal with, but I feel really sorry for the newcomers who need to get tp’s and will find themselves running into packs of Araneatrox etc. because they didn’t see them.

Thanks

8

I agree

[QUOTE=Mr Claude]
If you’re a miner ,radar limitations is the least of your problems :mad: Even the exagerated mob spawn than makes a miner use 3 times more ammo is just an annoyence , a big one but still an annoyance.
The bad part is that skills are so hard to gain at mining right now from a medium lvl that there’s absolutely no point in looking at your skills anymore.Crafting is also messed up , no one in their right mind would start crafting now as the skill gains is just ridiculously low and only a few old time crafters will still wanna craft from time to time …so guess what ? Ore /enmatter price is gonna go down also , a lot , it’s pointless to go mining or start crafting right now :(:frowning:
This is the first VU, in 26 months that I’ve been playing PE, that really scares me!!! If MA don’t rollback to the old skill gain sistem , miners and crafters may as well become hunters or just give up on PE ?? :confused:
[/QUOTE]

I agree, out of all the vu’s I have been through this one is by far the worst I have encountered. I enjoyed the previous vu because it made the mob groups closer to what a herd would be like, you don’t usually see 6 alphas in 1 herd, you see 1 and some runner ups, as well as young, mature etc. Anyway I mine and craft, I like to kill the mobs in my way when mining but now I have to kill 30 mobs every 100+ meters just to drop a bomb or probe, or sit there and wait 5 minutes for them to migrate out of range, “not something I want to do”. I have been crafting all except armor, I wanted to get metal components to a certain level before moving on the next higher blueprints, I used a skilling bp, lyst and crystal, 1k stack I got 2 levels of Mfg metal, 0 gains on intel, 0 gains on engineering. Not only is this bad for gaining experience it will also shoot the price of lyst down to almost useless, it is the oil of ore and will be virtually stacking up in the thousands if theres no point in using it in stacks to craft. This vu has hurt everyone including MA. 1 Step forward, 2 Steps backwards. I don’t usually complain about much of anything but this vu kind of set me off a bit. You probably won’t see me much on the hof board because most likely I won’t be playing much until I see some changes.

1 Like
9

[QUOTE=The Mighty]
…These problems I could probably deal with, but I feel really sorry for the newcomers who need to get tp’s and will find themselves running into packs of Araneatrox etc. because they didn’t see them.

Thanks
[/QUOTE]

It is not only newcomers that would have problems. I am not exactly a newcomer (I have been playing now for about 2 years) but I am also far from being uber. Yesterday I found myself getting frustrated because of that :censored: TP bug east of Fort Argus and the fact that I could not see mobs on my radar at a confortable distance from me. It took me about 5 tries before I made it from that outpost east of Argus to Argus. First of all, I couldnt see the mobs until they were almost beside me on my radar. Secondly, those :censored: Maffoids now run faster than I can.

The point is.. There are so many other useless things on PE that MA can eliminate to reduce lag, but to eliminate a few more red dots on the radar is not one of them.

10

agreed, radar tweak was a REALLY bad idea.

aside from the obvious reasons, heres why. lets say youre going along, minding your own business, in a more or less straight line. because mobs appear, and more importantly disappear, at different points and times, this results in more loading and unloading done by the client. these guys were trying to reduce loading but by introducing different rates at which different mobs come on and off the radar, this makes the radar much more ‘busy’ than it was before.

and on top of that, we have dancing trees to rag out our graphics card a little more. how nice.

both of these things should be reversed, immediately. i dont think its any coincidence that suddenly PE is alot more laggy and i havent seen a 100% server status more than once so far.

while theyre at it, they should reverse the changes made to the skill system, which just about no one likes. if youre smart about it, you can gain skill perfectly fast enuf in skills that you have low rank in.

if it aint broke, dont fix it. dont tweak it either. in fact, stay farrrrr away.

the new clothes and lighting effects and such are cool tho =D

11

Im not complaining about the skills yet.

Last night, in 14-15 axes I went from 419 to 598 LB, and I’ll be graduating tonight.

They can put them back after I graduate thank you very much.

Another thing with skills…I don’t seem able to use my FF4400 anymore. I get skills, but don’t do any damage ?? whats with that ?? Are guns now super skill dependent ??? May need to do some rifle skilling with my jester or mk1 before I can go back to tagging… (not that tagging is possible in this VU anyway because I can only see mobs within my 70m radar circle anyway).

12

[QUOTE=Peanuts]
It took me about 5 tries before I made it from that outpost east of Argus to Argus.
[/QUOTE]

A better way of getting back to Argus is to head NE from the SC and to T near the river. You’ll end up in Zues. Beats running all the way back to Argus.

No insult..but anyone whose played as long as you have knows that trick… :wink:

Back on topic: Yeah..i’m not enthused about the Radar issue either. But the mob spawns have gotten a bit out of hand,so I’ll agree there.

Maybe its that they are all excited again and need another dose of birth control?

:smiley:

13

[QUOTE=Darkscorp]
A better way of getting back to Argus is to head NE from the SC and to T near the river. You’ll end up in Zues. Beats running all the way back to Argus.

No insult..but anyone whose played as long as you have knows that trick… :wink:

:smiley:
[/QUOTE]

I have tried that several times as well and kept getting killed by more Maffoid and Armax that could out run me :rolleyes: :dunno:

14

[QUOTE=Peanuts]
I have tried that several times as well and kept getting killed by more Maffoid and Armax that could out run me :rolleyes: :dunno:
[/QUOTE]

Oh..I apologize profusely. Yeah the Armax are a pain. Try running more East by following the hills to the South. I haven’t found any major Spawns near there.

The server border is actually pretty close to where the hills end. You can tell you’re there when the sky noticibly brightens. Dying or T-ing after that will put you in Zues.

15

Buy a TP chip, or hire a merc.

16

[QUOTE=Darkscorp]
Oh..I apologize profusely…
[/QUOTE]

:laugh: Its okay mate. I forgive you… this time :wink:
Just dont let it happen again.. or else.. :handgun:
:wink:

17

Ok here’s my take on it. I’ve seen lots of people complain about the radar range, reducing lag, and the swaying trees. I think the big thing that’s missing in all of this is the AI.

One thing you’ll notice about the radar is that you can only “see” mobs in the terrain when they’re rendered on your radar. The lag that they are reducing has absolutly nothing to do with painting stupid little red dots on the radar display, but rather with the animals themselves. You know how you sometimes will run across a mob that seems to teleport across the field in little steps, rather than walking, like it’s lagging out? I believe that what you’re seeing there is the “sample rate” for mobs that are outside of the viewrange of any character. Rather than updating the mob AI at 60 fps or 30fps or whatever the internal game engine runs at you calculate the mob at greater steps at greater intervals. Mob AI has to be calculated server side so it stays synced with every participant, even at a totally random guess (assuming 30fps internal clock and 3 second intervals) the difference between an offscreen Mob and an onscreen Mob could be 90x the calculations. Partnered up with the much denser spawns imagine what the server load would be like if it calculated the AI of all lower level mobs at full radar range, that could easily be 3x as many for it to track in the densest of areas. More dangerous mobs get drawn and calculated at greater ranges (spiders and Atrox Old Alphas for instance get drawn at the old radar range, all the way at the edge, at least for me).

And as for the trees? Well what is there to calculate? The trees can be entirely clientside, and thus don’t generate any lag except possibly what’s caused from a slight increase in displacement calculations for the points of the objects, and that’s probably all in the graphics card. It’s not like poly counts have increased or texture resolutions have gone up.

Based on my theory I don’t think we’ll be seing any radar amps or any of the like, unless they are very expensive or otherwise discouraged in wide use. Now if they add significantly more server capacity or decrease the mob spawns who knows what could happen.

The one main benifit I see in all of this radar chance is the rough estimation on mob toughness, based on when you first see it pop up. It’s at least a little better for exploring than “hey, that one dosen’t look so scary” :stuck_out_tongue:

3 Likes
18

Hmmmm my thoughts on the new radar system

Firstly, yes, MA actually did something they have been talking about since before I started playing PE - and that is to reduce lag

Yup - it does. It means the PE servers don’t have to send a bunch of data per mob to your PC until that mob gets in a closer range. As for repeatedly going close to/ far from the same mob, this does not increase data transfer, as the client caches info, and just has to resync

Unfortunately, they didn’t just do this to the radar, but to the mob visibility in general (It wouldnt reduce lag otherwise). Many people have said that this has had a large negative impact on game enjoyment (mobs appearing in front of your nose) and many others, myself included, annoyed at the reduction in usefulness of long range taggers, as there is now much less long range

What MA could have done is to optimise the method of encapsulating the mob data, rather than keeping it exactly as it is, and modifying the client. That way, for example, if you could reduce the data for 1 mob to 2 bytes rather than 6 bytes, you cut out 2/3rds of lag

Let’s face it, all each mob needs is x/y, mob type, age group, health level, current health, damage done by player(s)/team(s), and what (if any) loot it holds

It’s basic programming principles to optimise this rather than a nasty hack like shortening effective visible distance

As for the skill system, I’m all for it. I was training an avatar before and after the new VU, and frankly, while the info window didnt show green as often, I actually gained just as many skills after as before, because now each time you get a green line, you usually get more than one skill point. This avatar was low level by the way

So the higher level players are grumbling? So what. If they actually think about it, it changes nothing for them

MA seem to have implemented an inverse parabola for skills (the higher you are, the less skills you gain). So player 1 has 4500 skills in Evade, and player 2 (his bitter enemy) also has 4500 Evade. Player 2 is not going to get more skills than player 1, based on the fact that they play for a similar length of time per week

“We want a bigger skillgap from the n00bs/middies” cry the ‘ubers’. It doesnt matter in the slightest - the gap in real terms is the same as it always was, as it will take those n00bs/middies just as long to gain those higher skills too

2 Likes
19

I don’t really think it’s a bandwith issue so much as a processor load one. It’s been a while since I’ve monitored my firewall while playing (and I do think I’ll have to check it out again now that you bring it up) but I don’t think that PE ever was using more than 10k in either direction, even at the highest bandwith setting. I think it’s just a way of adding more mobs without adding significantly more processors to the server farm.

20

OK it seems they have adjusted the radar, its not quite as annoying as before. still kinda sucks, but we shall see…